View Full Version : Kukishin ryu seems so complete

3rd January 2003, 00:09
I have been looking at several forms of koryu and the kukishin ryu seems to be among the most complete, they have a huge jujutsu/yawara
section when compared to other koryu like TKSR. They also have an immense curriculum for weapons and esoteric teachings. Are the kuki family arts more complete than most others in the koryu arts?

Benjamin Peters
3rd January 2003, 01:05
Of interest is the age of Kukishin Ryu and its accumulation of knowledge since it began. Without training in TSKSR and other arts (of the same grouping ie koryu), it is hard to say what is limited or expansive. I think it suffice to say in concurrence with you, that several lines of Kukishin exist and each are very much broad and deep in the knowledge it offers (from my limited experience in Bujinkan).

However, not having the full experience of this lineage and others, I don't think I can say any more than that; especially on how broad (comprehensive) other schools are. Perhaps it's better put by saying that of the arts proliferated via the Ninpo-type organisations, Kukishin Ryu is very much a comprehensive art.

Further, if we trained in-depth and knew more about, say, Takeuchi Ryu or Kiraku Ryu, perhaps we would compare and see how broad and comprehensive systems can be.

My 2c

R Erman
14th January 2003, 13:32
Originally posted by Mekugi

Takeuchi Ryu is nothing to shake a stick at- and it is darned old. Araki ryu has plenty of gusto as well. Kukishin Tenshin Hyoho is just one of several koryu and each one has it's own flavor- complete I think, is in the mind of the beholder (more doesn't always mean better). BTW Bujinkan is not doing Kukishin Tenshin Hyoho or any of the "branch Koryu", but another school that was created by Takamatsu...KukishinDEN, from what I understand.


From what I understand Takamatsu had already handed down the kukishin branch(es) to other pupils, but wanted Hatsumi to be able to teach kukishin ryu, so he "created" an umbrella system of the art for Hatsumi to pass on.

R Erman
15th January 2003, 01:02
Oh, he(Takamatsu) taught the kata to several people, including Hatsumi. And these kata are taught within the kans. You are correct that Takamatsu re-introduced the kuki family arts to the kuki family and acted as shike(I believe that's the correct term). Kind of similar to Otake and TSKSR. But Kukishinden Happo Bikenjutsu is not just the principles from my experience.

R Erman
15th January 2003, 14:17
Cool, never heard the story quite that way. thanks for the info.