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Kamiyama
10th January 2003, 23:42
It's only the beginning...
Things could get a lot better of course...
and they could just go crazy...
It's a great happy world we live in..


UN Sanctions Seen as 'Declaration of War'
(Reuters) - North Korea on Friday warned the Security Council against punishing it with sanctions for pulling out of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, saying it would view this as a declaration of war. Pyongyang's U.N. envoy, Ambassador Pak Gil Yon, also told reporters the United States had shown a lack of sincerity in offering to hold talks on his country's nuclear program without being willing to engage in full negotiations.

As students of martial arts are you doing your best to be ready if the world goes up in smoke and the monies we use are no more good.. what will you do?

Are you ready to defend your family and yourself from things outside the dojo area matted rooms.....?

kamiyama, ralph severe

Soulend
11th January 2003, 00:23
Historically during wartime, the economy of the U.S. boomed, so I don't see us paying 10,000,000 Deutchmarks for a loaf of bread or anything.

If civilians are forced to defend themselves from an armed force (highly unlikely in this case anyway), I don't see any martial arts commonly discussed here at e-budo being of much use. Maybe the no-touch knockout thing if you can rapid-fire you ki fast enough:) A man firing at you with an AK-47 is unlikely to stop and grapple with you, zazen breathing will not help against inhaled biological agents, nor is kuzushi of much use in a nuclear blast.

Moko
11th January 2003, 01:19
What War? I don't think we should jump the gun. There's no war... yet. So, everyone out of the bunkers.

There are some things I trust the UN to do. I trust tehm to hold back the US until all diplomatic options are played out. War is on one end of the scale of diplomatic pressures a nation can use.

And if there were war, Canada can't play. We don't have any strategic transport (Well HindQuarrters considers Hercules strategic, Ugh. Flying across the Antlantic in a Herc?) and the Ukrainian Anatovs are probaly already doing charter flights for others with money and political will.

william northcote
12th January 2003, 15:18
Originally posted by Moko
What War? I don't think we should jump the gun. There's no war... yet. So, everyone out of the bunkers.

To right. If it did come to war, where yould you go? If you could defend your family, what will you defend it with? A gun? Pistol that you keep for a sort of home defence?

I very much doubt that a war would erupt and suddenly the economy would go down faster than a dead swan in mid flight. I very much doubt a Mad Max style future if Korea decides to unleash a mini sun over a opposing city, or chemical warfare and mass murder to the unknown people.

but and I do mean but we have not been at peace with North Korea since the truce was called ending the fighting. We have only stopped killing each other. There was no disarm of soldiers, we never came home to peace with North Korea. The war is still there only it has been quiet for the last few decades. The world has only taken a breather in the fighting.

It was the same with the IRA in Northern Ireland. They said peace but all the bombs and guns remained for a very long time.

But the fundemental question should be asked: Would you do the right thing by joining the armed forces to fight if it did happen?

Moko
12th January 2003, 20:05
For any country to nuke America with one bomb is not too smart. They would have to go for many, many strikes. The retaliation is garanteed. I think it was Clinton who said in respect to a nuke that the country who did that would change, or become un-recongizable.

I cannot see a war with a build-up like WWII happening. Where you have years to build up divisions and the like. Modern wars are "Come-as-you-are" Parties. This excludes countries with inept leadership like Canada.

As for the question on a personal level, I would.

By the way I'm not smart enough to tell you where the war will be next. But I do note that Korea is on the way home from Iraq and you guys could stop off in Vietnam for some payback.

william northcote
12th January 2003, 21:09
By the way I'm not smart enough to tell you where the war will be next. But I do note that Korea is on the way home from Iraq and you guys could stop off in Vietnam for some payback.

Only Iraq and N. Korea are 2 of the main problems at this moment in time. Vietnam is over. Peace was saught and that is the final answer. Korea is a truce not a full "lets go home and never fight again" thing. We as a united world, never got to sign for peace. So the conflict remains.

Iraq, well that is another matter. A Sargent in the British Army said to me before going abroad, "Let America have Afghanistan, we (the British Armed Forces) want to go back to Iraq and finish off what we started."

I wish we could go and finish the "job" so to speak. The British Army hate leaving things half done.

But jingoism aside, war should never happen. History repeats atrocities from the crusades to Yugoslavia. Only by having an army in a powerful country stops madmen from taking control and commiting the unspeakable. We may seem to turn a blind eye, but we are always watching ;) .

pete lohstroh
12th January 2003, 21:52
Mr.Pfuetzenreuter,
Vietnam? Nothing a little world history and a dash of humanity can't fix.

Mr. Severe,
what's your "real" point? I am guessing that "art of combat" training includes methods for downing black helicopters and fending off mutant hordes like the omega man.

Moko
12th January 2003, 23:21
Hey Pete!

Ever hear of Dennis Leary? You where he suggests you guy stop off after Vietnam? Hehehehehe.

As for mentioning that we or I should employ a dash of humanity, I wonder if by doing so it will make people like Paul Pot follow suit? Maybe Ho Chi Minh will start writting Christmas cards too? Why do we have to turn the other cheek always? What's wrong with a strong shot in the other guys teeth as a negotiating ploy? At least they will know when you're serious. These are rhetorical questions and not always the my reactions.

I personnally think that we as a race on this planet haven't figured out that war should not happen. How many wars are on-going at this time? How many states of war exist right now. US and Cuba? US and N Korea? US and Libya? Then how many are going off in Africa? War will be with us for a while yet. We need to develope the intelligence (Smarts) to know when it is truly necessary and not needed. That is done at a payscale way above ours. And they seem to be doing an OK job at the UN.

TheStrongest
13th January 2003, 01:08
Only God knows why North Korea is backing away from the Nuclear Treaty....I dont get it at all.

skuggvarg
13th January 2003, 07:40
What???

Is god the only one with a brain?!?

Let me quote the president of the USA; "Axis of evil=Iraq, North Korea, bla, bla, bla..."

Now if you were the ruler of North Korea. Seeing the signs of a coming war in Iraq. What would you do?


Best regards / Richard M

william northcote
13th January 2003, 08:58
As a thought when Moko mentioned WWII. Winston Churchill said in 1947 to his peers in a party conference "Today I can say that there is no war anywhere on this planet"

Where did we go wrong

We had peace in 1946 and announced in 1947. So why are we bothering with the hype of invading another country. If diplomacy fails fine, we tried for peace, we talked it out and the obvious answer is invade, destroy, kill, opress and change the government to suit our needs and wants.


Let me quote the president of the USA; "Axis of evil=Iraq, North Korea, bla, bla, bla..."

A british newspaper printed a quote from Mr. Bush's speech last week and inserted petroleum companies logos onto the printed speech. It sounded like Iraq was nothing more that a "Lets go thier for thats where the oil is" in the context of the newspaper front page.

Anyway, have a good day.

Will

paolo_italy
13th January 2003, 09:29
Hi,

just to go back on the topic, in my training I do include some stuff mainly for the sake of awareness.
We (me, my family and my fellows) study and practice survival seriously, we have an "emergency" house in the mountains, we learn the documents on NBC countermeasures that our goverment sent out when there was an high risk of terrorist attacks, etc. In other words, we've been trying to be prepared.
I'm not paranoid nor I believe a world a la mad-max is on the rise, but a sane, healthy mindset is useful IMHO.

I have a funny episode to tell you. I have a close friend that has (believe it or not) "special" senses. Years ago she dreamed for 2 weeks an explosion of a nuke bomb in/caused-by Korea. Imagine my feelings today, damn...

Anyway, it's since '93 that I include Ninja Zanzon Ho as a personalization of the year's theme.

That's my two pennies...

Take care,

Onmitsu
13th January 2003, 16:45
I have seen pictures of survival training on Kamiyama's website and I think this kind of training is always worth while. The world we live in would fall apart almost over night if the lights went out. We depend upon cheap energy to keep things going in the U.S. and if anything happened to our power stations we would be in some deep doo.
Think about the chaos of the LA riots times 100. There's a pretty thin line that keeps all a part of 'polite' society. Having said all that I don't see how N. Korea's sabre rattling is anything more than a frightened plea for attention. N.K. was named a part of the axis of evil for a reason. The media has mostly swept aside the many inhumane acts of terror and torture that N.K.'s ruler has inflicted on his own people. Loudest of the voices against the humanitarian atrocities in N.K. is Norbert Vollertsen a former N.K. volunteer worker from Germany. According to him there is a government perpetuated mass starvation of any region that offers opposition to Kim Jong Il and his government. IN an interview to the ABC washington studios Norbett said...

"These are the real killing fields of the 21st century. All those refugees are talking about mass execution... baby killing... about rape, about torture, about biological experiments. They are using Christians and other people in the opposition... in those so-called reform institutions... in those concentration camps... they are using those human beings like guinea pigs."
There's actually a lot more that he describes. It makes Kim Jong Il look worse than Pol Pot. (See: http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s546004.htm)
(See also: http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1203/p01s04-wosc.html)
Many are criticising Bush for not paying more attention to the current "crisis" in N.K., That N.K. poses a larger threat to the U.S. than Iraq. On the surface I would agree however what is it that N.K. is actually threatening? In 1998 N.K. test fired a missle over Japan to show how long it's arms were. Recently they admitted to having a nuclear weapons DEVELOPMENT program. They never admitted to having nuclear capability. They have never tested a nuclear device. Indeed even if they have been hiding this capability at most they would have a handful of low yield nukes with limited strike capability. The range of their missles puts thier brothers and sisters (and uncles, cousins and grandparents) in the south under their scope as well as Japan and some unpopulated portions of Alaska.
We have U.S. troops in both S.Korea and Japan but it is unclear if their missles have the pinpoint accuracy to avoid massive collateral damage if they were to ever use them.
Iraq is sitting astride of the second largest oil reserve in the world. Iraqi's leader has already shown his willingnes to 'spoil the stew' for everyone else by setting ablaze the oil fields in Kuwait. He has threatened to do the same to his own fields if we invade. Currently the fields are in disrepair and in some cases leaking lakes of oil. The flow of oil coming out Iraq right now has slowed to barely a trickle. It would behoove any leader to attempt to restore some stability to the region and ensure that the precious lifeblood of the world's economy continued to flow.

william northcote
13th January 2003, 17:40
It doesnt matter if N. Korea can launch a pinpoint missle, If its nuclear then it doesnt matter if its 1 mile or 10 miles away. The damage will last for deacdes and more.

If it does happen then you may as well count in the megadeath column instead of what cities it levels.

Even then the fallout is far more likely to kill and injure more people. Chernobyl affected Scotland for years as well as Lapland and Most of the old U.S.S.R.

Its a dark subject is this thread but it will make you think.

I would like to thank Onmitsu for making me think about what N. Korea is doing to its own people. The quicker that is sorted the more we can become human beings and not breeders of destruction.

shinbushi
14th January 2003, 17:22
Originally posted by Will Northcote

I very much doubt a Mad Max style future if Korea decides to unleash a mini sun over a opposing city, or chemical warfare and mass murder to the unknown people. [/I] [/B]
I would hpe for us MAs it ismore like the Fist of the Northern Star (Hokuto no ken)

;):p

Robert Meier
15th January 2003, 07:32
Hello! That´s all a bit strange. A few months ago, not feeling that great, I wanted to do some prayers for safety especially for the area mentioned above. I did it at a calm place where are also some beautiful trees. But after folding my hands during praying, unfortunately my mind started to wander a bit and the thing with the exploision of the bomb came into my mind. Nevertheless I tried to continue what I was doing as calm as possible focusing that such thing will not happen. So I hope and think everything will be fine.

That was several weeks before I had to notice during this last vacation in Japan (I came back yesterday) in the news that North Korea is just making trouble again.

So I´m a bit surprised that what I seemed to feel during my prayer just seemed to happen not that much later. So could it be that what Paolo is talking about could be quite meaningful. I feel a bit strange and irritated about all that.

However, I´m a bit glad to be save at home from this last trip and thank you all for your kind help.

Sincerely, RM.:)

Kamiyama
16th January 2003, 11:07
""Is god the only one with a brain?!?""

kamiyama, LOL.. what is that in which you speak of that has a brain?
People really throw around the word god(s) like it means something to everyone. They throw it around like it has a meaning as well to those who really can't get it.

""Mr. Severe, what's your "real" point? I am guessing that "art of combat" training includes methods for downing black helicopters and fending off mutant hordes like the omega man.""

kamiyama, The Art Of Combat is a street fighting system. It does not address these matters. It is simple and much like Jun Fan.
As for the Kamiyama Dojo methods, I would yes and no to your question.
The juhachimon is a complete training system. Maybe you have missed that point or you have a guide who doesn't address these questions about 'real time' conflicts.
I would seek the knowledge.
I mean this is ninjutsu.. being ready for war, to out last your attacker.. right?
The attacker can come at you with MANY different types of weaponry and means to harm you and the ones you love.

I believe many see training in ninjutsu as a dojo experience.
Why not go out into the woods with little or nothing and have a game of you run and you get chased.
Or why not do it in the city.
Maybe see if you can save a humans life who is bleading to death.
Or someone has heat stroke or is going into shock.
How about pulling your auot out of a muddy hole in the hard rain with your mother and sister in the car hungery, wet, tired and sick.

See if your mind is open to other training outside the cool black doji and climate controlled dojo.

""Mr. Severe, what's your "real" point?""

Kamiyama, ninjutsu should be alive and not dead.

kamiyama, ralph severe

paolo_italy
16th January 2003, 11:21
:up: :up: :up:

Onmitsu
16th January 2003, 16:02
Fianally a little press on what's really going on in N. Korea.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/859191.asp?pne=11947&0ct=-300

william northcote
16th January 2003, 16:31
Right,

let the UK have Iraq as long as the rest of the world takes out North Korea.

Mike Williams
16th January 2003, 17:52
Originally posted by Kamiyama
Maybe see if you can save a humans life who is bleading to death.
Or someone has heat stroke or is going into shock.
How about pulling your auot out of a muddy hole in the hard rain with your mother and sister in the car hungery, wet, tired and sick.

Umm, wouldn't you be better off doing a St. Johns Ambulance course and an off-road driving course - instead of signing up for ninjutsu classes?

That's like signing up for evening classes in Italian and being taught how to fix photocopiers.

I find it strange that some people seem to want their martial arts training to teach them about life in general. If you want a wide range of life-skills, leave the dojo and get a life. ;)

Cheers,

Mike

Kamiyama
16th January 2003, 20:54
""I find it strange that some people seem to want their martial arts training to teach them about life in general. If you want a wide range of life-skills, leave the dojo and get a life""

kamiyama, this is the most obivion statement I've ever heard a martial artist make in 30 years..
I'm very lucky not to be a subject...


kamiyama, ralph severe

Chris Schimdt
16th January 2003, 21:44
I might be wrong but i thought that the dojo is everywhere. And Martial Arts are about LIFE...prolonging your own, saving others lives and making LIFE better for those involved. I think that skill would be useful everywhere. Of course i could be wrong...

Chris Schimdt
16th January 2003, 21:46
Also, nice quote Mr Severe.

Tamdhu
16th January 2003, 22:29
"Obivion?"

Wasn't that a record by Roxy Music, or Tangerine Dream or something?

Georg Carlsson
17th January 2003, 00:28
Originally posted by Chris Schimdt
I might be wrong but i thought that the dojo is everywhere. And Martial Arts are about LIFE...prolonging your own, saving others lives and making LIFE better for those involved. I think that skill would be useful everywhere. Of course i could be wrong...

I think you are right on.
How ever, is it possible to achieve a better life to everyone involved through smashing each other to pieces?
I don't think so.
Perhaps there will be peace when the human race is history. :shot:

Georg. :D

paolo_italy
17th January 2003, 08:53
Originally posted by Mike Williams


Umm, wouldn't you be better off doing a St. Johns Ambulance course and an off-road driving course - instead of signing up for ninjutsu classes?

That's like signing up for evening classes in Italian and being taught how to fix photocopiers.

I find it strange that some people seem to want their martial arts training to teach them about life in general. If you want a wide range of life-skills, leave the dojo and get a life. ;)

Cheers,

Mike

I agree and it's what I intended to say in a PM to Will. IMHO ninjutsu doesn't always give the "answers" and the "methods", but always helps in creating the need to know, the proper mindset. In my dojo we have once a year a mini-stage with paramedics... We had a driving course with professional pilots... Of course it's not a shinden gokui, I mean there's no densho (I suppose) that tells to find a paramedic and learn first aid, but I'm sure that we all are obliged to bring to life the interpretation of ninjutsu as "the art of surviving".

Kamiyama
17th January 2003, 10:35
Very well put.

People control, Firearms control, Freedom control..... are not the way of the ninja.

kamiyama, ralph severe

Okami
17th January 2003, 16:13
@Kamiyama

In how many wars you were involved (as a soldier or civilian)?

I mean directly and not watching some (probably fake :p ) pictures on CNN et al...

Have you served in the army at all?

I just don't get these "get ready for war and buy a shotgun stories"... If there will be a real war, having a weapon or good H2H skills is the least you have to worry about.

But, hey, if you think you're more safe with having a arsenal of weapons under your bed and getting to the shooting range every Friday, then okay. :)

"People control, Firearms control, Freedom control....."

LOL Nah, better not to start, I wrote enough...

Sorry for the rambling and all the best.

Cheers,

Mijo.

Kamiyama
17th January 2003, 23:20
Here is a taste of war in America....


by: Rush Limbaugh,

"I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the September 11th casualty, and those who die serving the country in uniform, are profound.

No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th.

Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.

If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.

If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in
action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable.

Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs.

If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry.

And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185
million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough.

We also learned recently that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11th families are getting.

In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.You see where this is going, don't you?

Folks, this is part and parcel of over fifty years of entitlement politics in this country.

It's just really sad.

"Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the
tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime."
>-Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.

Every time when a pay raise comes up for the military they
usually receive next to nothing of a raise.
Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low rent housing.

However our own US Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal to being millionaires plus.

They also do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system. If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harms way receive a pension of $15,000 per month.

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.

When do we finally do something about this ??"

kamiyama, ralph severe

Kamiyama
17th January 2003, 23:25
"People control, Firearms control, Freedom control....."
LOL Nah, better not to start, I wrote enough...
Sorry for the rambling and all the best.
Cheers,Mijo.


kamiyama, no no no, let's hear all about it... write more...
Start, tell me about..."People control, Firearms control, Freedom control....." from YOUR point of view...

And by the way, no one said anything about having guns will save you..
Nor going to the range every week.. nothing was said about this...

Why did you bring it up?

Cheers,
kamiyama, ralph severe

Onmitsu
18th January 2003, 00:15
Kamiyama,
Interesting information about the comparison between compensation for a 9/11 victim and an enlisted soldier. Rush L. brings up good points about the 'entitlement mentality' in America.
Could it be that that the average U.S. citizen does not take enough responsibility for his or her own safety/survival?

Much debate has been happening over bringing back the draft recently.
One of the points of view is that today we have an all volunteer army comprised of mostly lower income folks who have been enticed by multi-million dollar ads. The idea that was conveyed is if you are a true patriot (as in the days of WWII) you would show it by volunteering to put your life on the line.
Let me ask, Do you think we should bring back the draft?

pete lohstroh
18th January 2003, 00:45
Mr. Severe,
The subtle implication in many of your posts is that those of us that train in dojos that aren't your dojo are not prepared for the meat-hook reality of combat. Maybe you're right. I train in a Bujinkan dojo to learn Bujinkan budo taijutsu. Simple yes?

With all due respect Mr. Severe, why must your posts be so slyly insulting to some of the people who continue to faithfully return to Sensei for his budo?

Kamiyama
18th January 2003, 03:01
Let me ask, Do you think we should bring back the draft?

kamiyama, yes. I feel if the draft is FAIR.. and the government employee's children go too.. then yes, why of course.. I believe it would MATURE a lot of sheep.
Pete, I would say the ninpo-ninjutsu-ninjakan dojo guides really don't take the time to understand juhachimon. If so then maybe you wouldn't have posted this question. Bujinkan Dojo methods are severly over looked for the nonchalance and pleasing ranking structure and the lack of foresight into reality.
I also train and teach Hatsumi sensei art. This my friend does not excuse me of my personal responsibiliies to myself and to the ones I love.
Hatsumi sensei budo is fine. I don't have a need for most of the koryuha in the year 2003. The things I do need are trained to a fine level of skill and effectiveness.
I have a great deal to work on without having to run back home to dad and mom for more every time I need ranking, need aproval from my peers - students or to feel like I'm missing something.
I mean no disrespect towards anyone of the students who train with Hatsumi sensei. It would be your own fear or ego that plays these games in your mind.

I say this, if every man/woman in their country had the born rights to have the self-protection tools at hand the governments would not be so out of control and we wouldn't be pray to the on-going games of war.
When the government disrespects the people you get slaves and subjects.
Slaves and subjects lose face and the will to stop, control or to throw out the unhealthy government from power over them.
I believe this was the idea of the shinobi...
I believe this to be natural to all human beings and animals of all kind.. freedom and the safety of their life..

kamiyama, ralph severe

pete lohstroh
18th January 2003, 07:38
Mr. Severe,
I have trust in Sensei and the trust he places in Mr. Hoban and Mr. Atkins (among others). If this makes me a "sheep", that's alright because the shepherd is worth following.

You have an interesting perspective which I sometimes enjoy. It would be a shame if you, while trying to distinguish yourself from the pack, airbrushed yourself out of the big picture.

Okami
18th January 2003, 17:36
@all

I have some strong opinions about this. I hope that I will not offend anyone with my views. As my english is not my primary language, I may sometimes have some harsh formulations, for that I apologize. I tried to be as un-harsh as possible.

@Kamiyama

First, calling a terrorist act(s) a "war" is ,IMO, incorrect. Maybe asymetric war :) . The last war that America really (!) felt, is, IMO, the WW II (or maybe even the civil war). Every other, where they were involved directly or indirectly was more or less not really noticed by many Americans. IMO, it's not a real war until every single one in the country notice it (from sleeping in shelters, food rations, towns not far away getting occupied or shelled etc.), no "I saw it on CNN and it was terrible, or my brother died in some far away corner of the world.".

BTW, you didn't answered my first questions. I'm quite interested in the answer as you are implying that you're preparing for war (how to prepare for something you don't have the slightest clue about?).

>kamiyama, no no no, let's hear all about it... write more...
Start, tell me about..."People control, Firearms control, Freedom control....." from YOUR point of view...

Hmm, I try to be short. And of course I'll write from MY point of view, I can hardly write from any others :D . IMO, Firearms control have nothing to do with freedom. Would I be more free if I had a weapon? I don't think so.

As for people and freedom control, that was always happening and will always happen. From the commercials to the intermezzos in the american forces network (BTW, love that morning show, there), everyone tries to influence you in this way or that way. Don't see anything new or shocking there.

>And by the way, no one said anything about having guns will save you..
Nor going to the range every week.. nothing was said about this...

Why did you bring it up?

Because I had the feeling that you were implying that MA (and firearms, as you are constantly repeating your firearm control thingy) skills would save you in a war. IMO, a "strong" mind (sorry, my english is too bad to find a better word) skills would be much more useful then MA skills.

See, my countrie is a excellent example of this. When it was attacked, the military analysts gave it three (3) days against the JNA. And, most people in ex-Yugoslavia didn't have a weapon and there was weapon control before that. We all know that Croatia lastet a bit longer than three days. As you probably know, wars simulated before they happen, the only thing wich cannot possibly be calculated is the will, bravery and motivation. This is the main reason why the three days loss became a victory. No, weapons in the world would help if you don't have the willpower, motivation and bravery.


-Draft

Nice to bring that up. "Mature alot of sheep" Sigh. Again, in how many wars you were actively involved and how did that benefit your growth?

Jeez, I start sounding like a hippie. :rolleyes:

I wanted to be short, but, it was stronger than me. :)

All the best to all of you and lets just hope that there will be no war. After all I haven't bought any stocks from those Helicopter suppliers etc. :p

Cheers,

Mijo.

Troy McClure
18th January 2003, 19:44
Mijo,

Of all this talk of preparation for war, I think you can offer the best perspective. When I noticed you are from Croatia, I knew your post would be a good one to read. And you were correct on many points.

The citizens of the US have it easy because our location almost makes us perfectly safe from war. We only feel it in an economic sense and in the loss of loved ones abroad. We will never have to hide in our homes taking cover while planes bomb from above. This new terrorist threat is the first real war to touch our soil in a very long time, but its randomness makes it difficult to prepare for. Really, besides nukes, terrorism is the only threat Americans have to fear.

Arming yourself and preparing for war is silly for an American to do. Especially one in the heart of Texas where a foreign army hasn't marched in over 150 years and won't anytime in our lifetime. Really, unless you have plans to join the military, training to prepare for war is misdirected training. Just like the paramilitary types that play war on the weekends preparing for ... I guess the coming Canadian Invasion. Though many could argue Canada already gained a foothold with all the Sunbelt hockey expansion.

Ah, I've killed my train of thought now. Nevermind.

Ka1yama
18th January 2003, 23:08
Arming yourself and preparing for war is silly for an American to do. Especially one in the heart of Texas where a foreign army hasn't marched in over 150 years and won't anytime in our lifetime.

That sounds extremely closed minded to me. You never know what will happen, no one does. I'm not saying a foreign army is likely to roll over my front lawn anytime soon, but as you said we feel the effects of war in other ways being American. I'm concerned about those who are unprepared. People who do not care enough to plan ahead. When the trouble starts and I have supplies/knowledge and they don't. Imagine if the scenarios the news talks about are true, bioweapons detonated in american soil and so forth. I can't protect myself from the weapons if they are close to me, but I live in Texas, Let's suppose one goes off in Florida. How much panic, looting, general havoc is going to be unleashed? How many people are going to run at the last minute to raid grocery stores for food and supplies? It might interest many who are unaware, in my little texas town, when September 11th hit there was not ONE firearm or gallon jug of drinking water left on the shelves for at least a week. That wasn't even a local attack.
Neil Stewart

Kamiyama
19th January 2003, 00:50
""First, calling a terrorist act(s) a "war" is ,IMO, incorrect.""

Kamiyama, and?

""I'm quite interested in the answer as you are implying that you're preparing for war (how to prepare for something you don't have the slightest clue about?).""

Kamiyama, research. Research and training into the very subjects of those who have been in a war. I believe this to be the simplest method for ‘being ready for a war’. US military does it everyday. A great percent of the US military has not been to war at all. but this does not mean they cannot research and train for it. Does this help you understand how I feel about not wanting for the ones who have been to war to be responsible for me? If not ask the 10,000 or so members of the Bujinkan dojo why they training for a war but have not been in one as well. I believe you wil get different answers for different people as well.

””Hmm, I try to be short. And of course I'll write from MY point of view, I can hardly write from any others. IMO, Firearms control have nothing to do with freedom. Would I be more free if I had a weapon? I don't think so. “”

Kamiyama, if you are not part of the answer then you are part of the problem. I don’t live in your shoes and you don’t live in mine. Until then…. I will have my opinion.

””As for people and freedom control, that was always happening and will always happen. From the commercials to the intermezzos in the american forces network””

Kamiyama, I’m not part of our countries propaganda war. It is sick and twisted. The American people in general know that 95% of the network or media is lying to you. I agree, if you are born into a part of the world that doesn’t mind or has no say over their life because of political powers then this would be true for me as well. I feel in my lifetime I will not see the powers at hand controlling the people around me. So I disagree.

>And by the way, no one said anything about having guns will save you..
Nor going to the range every week.. nothing was said about this...

””Why did you bring it up?””

Kamiyama, because your focus is on firearms. Mine is not.

””Because I had the feeling that you were implying that MA skills would save you in a war. IMO, a "strong" mind skills would be much more useful then MA skills.””

Kamiyama, I disagree. What kind of martial arts are you training in?

””Again, in how many wars you were actively involved and how did that benefit your growth?””

Kamiyama, you may e-mail me or look on my web site for personal information, Research.

I believe Neil said it very clear how I feel about being ready......

kamiyama, ralph severe

william northcote
19th January 2003, 08:49
If not ask the 10,000 or so members of the Bujinkan dojo why they training for a war but have not been in one as well. I believe you wil get different answers for different people as well.

Err... I am only training so that I have a better chance of seeing tomorow. Nothing more.


Kamiyama, if you are not part of the answer then you are part of the problem. I don’t live in your shoes and you don’t live in mine. Until then…. I will have my opinion.

””As for people and freedom control, that was always happening and will always happen. From the commercials to the intermezzos in the american forces network””

Kamiyama, I’m not part of our countries propaganda war. It is sick and twisted. The American people in general know that 95% of the network or media is lying to you.

Somehow in the last post it seems that you have just argued with hourself.

Look leave the guns out of this, politics aside and what is what. All this thread is about is the fact that we are possably facing war in other countries and some people are concerned. Less of the guns thing, after all congress repealed the 1805 act for every man to arm thenselves in the event of an invasion from the U.K. It was taken away one year later and no one seemed to have listened.

But if you wish to argue about gun control and preparing for war, you may as well take it on in another thread.

This thread is about why Iraq and North Korea are in the news. Its not about home defence or some pseudo army marching from where to invade the U.S.

Kamiyama
19th January 2003, 09:47
Yes, this post is about war.
Really nothing more.

In my opinion the good old US of A will not be the same country in 10 to 20 years.. I believe things are going to get really bad here.

I just posted this to ask are we ready for the horrors of war with another country again?

I for one have good buddies in the USA military.
I would hate to see them put in the ground.

Maybe this was not a good post to bring up.

kamiyama, ralph severe

Okami
19th January 2003, 13:06
@all

Sorry, for this soapbox.

@Troy

Thank you for the kind words. I laughed out loud when I read your hockey invasion comment.

>> ""First, calling a terrorist act(s) a "war" is ,IMO, incorrect.""

> Kamiyama, and?

Nothing, and, that's just my opinion.

>> ""I'm quite interested in the answer as you are implying that you're preparing for war (how to prepare for something you don't have the slightest clue about?).""

> Kamiyama, research. Research and training into the very subjects of those who have been in a war. I believe this to be the simplest method for ‘being ready for a war’. US military does it everyday. A great percent of the US military has not been to war at all. but this does not mean they cannot research and train for it. Does this help you understand how I feel about not wanting for the ones who have been to war to be responsible for me? If not ask the 10,000 or so members of the Bujinkan dojo why they training for a war but have not been in one as well. I believe you wil get different answers for different people as well.

Umm, OK. Have you been in the military? (For the n-th time) Someone who was in a war is responsible for you? Sorry, don't get that. As for the 10000 Bujinkan members who are training for war, please, where did you get that info from? You know, training MA is NOT preparing for war. As for the different answers, of course, that's just normal. Not to mention that every war is different, and every front can be different (fighting in Slavonia and fighting in the area of Dubrovnik are two totally different things, for instance). But, I don't want to sound like an expert, here, as I'm not. I'm just a guy who's fed up with the "preparing for war" goodnight stories that constantly keep popping up (the first stories I remember were from in the 90's where everyone "prepared" for war when the operation Desert Storm was happening, as a conclusion there was no more can food in, for instance, Germany :rolleyes: ).

>> ””Hmm, I try to be short. And of course I'll write from MY point of view, I can hardly write from any others. IMO, Firearms control have nothing to do with freedom. Would I be more free if I had a weapon? I don't think so. “”

> Kamiyama, if you are not part of the answer then you are part of the problem. I don’t live in your shoes and you don’t live in mine. Until then…. I will have my opinion.

I don't get the first part. So if I'm not following the Charlton Heston logic of life I'm part of the problem? Or I'm I a part of the problem when I'm pro-weapon oriented? BTW, what problem are you talking about :D . I never said anything about your having your opinion, but if you're stating something on a public forum then you should be prepared for someone who doesn't agree with you. I just hope you don't have to live in my shoes, because they're probably too big for you (size 48, I think that's size 12 in the states ;) ).

>> ””As for people and freedom control, that was always happening and will always happen. From the commercials to the intermezzos in the american forces network””

> Kamiyama, I’m not part of our countries propaganda war. It is sick and twisted. The American people in general know that 95% of the network or media is lying to you. I agree, if you are born into a part of the world that doesn’t mind or has no say over their life because of political powers then this would be true for me as well. I feel in my lifetime I will not see the powers at hand controlling the people around me. So I disagree.

LOL You're quite funny. What part of the world? I highly doubt that you've even smelled this part of the world not to mention lived here. So, pretty please. You maybe not see "the powers at hand controlling the people around you", but that doesn't means it doesn't happen. What do you disagree with? BTW, I wasn't reffering to the propaganda war at all, I was thinking in a more general way (You've mentioned "people control" etc. in your reply to my posting). If you do not believe that people are being controlled, why do you constantly mention things like "sheep", "control over life" et al?

>And by the way, no one said anything about having guns will save you..
Nor going to the range every week.. nothing was said about this...

>””Why did you bring it up?””

>Kamiyama, because your focus is on firearms. Mine is not.

Er, are you aware that you've just quoted yourself and answered it?! Sorry, my quoting system is a bit messed up, since I'm writing this in a hurry. Focus on firearms. Get real. I am not the one who is constantly repeating the firearm control thing, I am not the one who had funny firearm control quotes in his signature and so on. IIRC, when I looked at your website there were pictures from you with firearms, I have yet to put such pictures on the web.

>> ””Because I had the feeling that you were implying that MA skills would save you in a war. IMO, a "strong" mind skills would be much more useful then MA skills.””

> Kamiyama, I disagree. What kind of martial arts are you training in?

None. My previous martial arts (er, is there a word like martial sports in the english language?) were sports oriented, so I'm just a bit better than the average keyboard warrior :D . Seriously, I'm still looking for the right teacher, as my "right art theory" has been proven wrong and in the future I want to train in martial arts and no more martial sports. Of course you disagree, BTW, is that also a thing you've learned through "war research"? Everyone who is saying that h2h skills are of a great importance in war and that his home weapon would do squat agains the advancing tank doesn't have the slightest clue what he's talking about. Even the average grunt (BTW, in wartime in Croatia there was no time for this as there were more important skills to learn) has h2h training, but we all know where the real focus is. And we were talking about "getting ready for war for the average citizen", not about military training. But you have heard the same thing from your military friends. Do you think your, I don't know, ukemi skills would help you if a shell falls on your head?

>> ””Again, in how many wars you were actively involved and how did that benefit your growth?””

> Kamiyama, you may e-mail me or look on my web site for personal information, Research.

Yes, yes. You could have also answered with none. I could have also answered your "What MA you study" with Bujinkan, and then add "I'm researching it".

> I believe Neil said it very clear how I feel about being ready......

Yes, this is the thing I'm talking about the whole time. How are you preparing? Building a shelter? Buying guns? Buy cans of beans? What trouble, what knowledge? If a army is attacking your city with tanks, airplanes, artillery, ground troops etc. you can only pray for the real US army to stop by because you probably don't have anti aircraft weapons at home, do you? If a terrorist airplane crashes into the building that you're in, then it would be certainly more helpfull to not panic, then to know BJJ or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if you think (or anyone else of those "I'm preparing" people) that you're more ready than any other person, but I just could not have listening, again, to such silly stories without putting my opinion here.

If you want to prepare for war, join the military.

Hope that I didn't offended you, we just have very different opionions on this one. If I wouldn't have grown up in a war with all the nice "mature", "growth" benefits I would, probably, agree with you.

If there will be no suprising comment where I have the feeling that I have to comment it, this will be my last posting in this thread.

Cheers,

Mijo.

Robert Meier
19th January 2003, 15:22
Hmm, I´d like to hear more about the will-power thing Mijo talks about. Maybe you´re very right in that point ....

Btw, didn´t know that your shoes are size 48. Well, when you would ask for Tabi in Japan, they would probably comment your size with:
" Monster foot " as I heard them say .... :) ;) :laugh:
So I´m happy you didn´t step on my foot .... :)

When I spent those months in the army to learn about ABC warfare a decade ago, I came to the conclusion that such thing is to avoid by ALL Means.

And with these officers I faced at our army during compulsory military service, I doubt to survive much more than a weekend even without these dangerous weapons. Please forgive me this comment, but from my point of view it seems to be pretty true.

However, in these times I think it wouldn´t be a mistake to spend some money on a really very good gasmask and such stuff, just for the case these idiots try to play holy war again.

And all the best in your " Sports ".

Take care, RM .

Kamiyama
19th January 2003, 18:58
If you want to prepare for war, join the military.

kamiyama, good advice.....wow..
but I'll stick with what I'm been doing already..
What you have to say is wonderful propaganda for being a sheep.. sorry no thanks... I'll stay a Texan..

kamiyama, ralph severe

Onmitsu
20th January 2003, 16:26
I think there's a fine line between being considered a 'survival nut' and someone who is prepared for what may or may not ever take place.

How much panic, looting, general havoc is going to be unleashed? How many people are going to run at the last minute to raid grocery stores for food and supplies?
I think that's it really. I believe we have more to fear from ourselves than from a foriegn invading army. Take the LA (Rodney King) riots for example. a lot of the mostly Korean business owners in the surrounding nieghborhoods had been price gouging thier mostly black customers for years. When the riots broke out the Koreans had to defend their stores. It was like a war zone with shooting in the streets and people ducking for cover behind cars and shop doors.
I feel that the only reason we would have for learning military urban tactics and survival would be if there were a sudden breakdown of our infrastructure. The average citizen is lulled in to a false sense of safety. It could happen much easier than one might imagine. All it would take is a report of a bioweapon attack to spread mass panic across the U.S.

Kamiyama
20th January 2003, 18:22
I believe we have more to fear from ourselves than from a foriegn invading army.


kamiyama, I believe this is the point..


kamiyama, ralph severe