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chris davis 200
13th January 2003, 12:27
Hi people,

Hows about some fun tales about Sokaku Takeda against other schools and in challenge matches?

Cheers
Chris

O'Neill
13th January 2003, 13:22
I have often wondered about his trip to Okinawa. Do we know who he fought? Were they well known?

Nathan Scott
8th July 2004, 23:56
[Post deleted by user]

MarkF
12th July 2004, 12:49
Here is another one:


It was during that time, in 1915, that he met Sokaku Takeda, the grandmaster of daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu, at a hotel in Engaru. Fierce and hot-tempered, Takeda earned the reputation of being a "demon" warrior by boldly challenging the best martial artists in dojos across the land and defeating them. An accomplished swordsman, Takeda was also known to have fought with a live blade several times. In a single encounter he killed eight armed construction workers, wounding a dozen more as he sliced his way out of a mob. Even while lying half-paralyzed on his deathbed, Takeda was said to have thrown a sixth-dan judoka. Although he sometimes treated his students severely, Master Takeda was reported to have a following of thirty thousand disciples. His reputation spread as far as the United States, where, at the President's request, he dispatched a student to teach Theodore Roosevelt the daito-ryu.


Gotta watch them construction workers.


Mark

http://www.aikidoireland.ie/osensei.html

This is an interesting read.

Cady Goldfield
12th July 2004, 14:01
Er...Mark. I would take some of those tales with a grain of salt. The sword one, at least. Stories have a way of getting embellished with every telling. One guy nicked with a can opener becomes eight guys sliced to bits with a sword. ;)

The deathbed story is plausible, though. And, to get back to more ordinary turf, Takeda was notorious for trashing burly, high-rank judoka without breaking a sweat. :D

chrismoses
12th July 2004, 14:17
Actually Cady, the story with the construction workers has been fairly well documented. I don't have my copy of Pranin's "Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu" handy right now, but several people interviewed commented specifically about that incident. If memory serves, he faced murder charges, but was found to have acted in self defense. He was also hospitalized for at least a week after the incident due to his rather severe injuries.

MarkF
12th July 2004, 14:57
Hi, Cady,

Yes, I know, and it was meant to be a humorous "tale" as in "fun tales of Sokaku." I found it "interesting." (See topic post).

Mark

PS: The link has even more fun tales.:p

Cady Goldfield
12th July 2004, 15:59
Chris,
Wish the Fox News camera crew had been around then, for definitive proof!

John Connolly
12th July 2004, 17:14
That construction worker story isn't incredibly flattering to Takeda actually.

One version:

When he was twenty-three he was almost killed in a street brawl against a large unruly crowd of construction workers, who taunted his sword and old style of dress in Tokyo. Though he killed several of them, it was a policeman who luckily came upon the scene and stopped the mob from killing the young Takeda -- who lay bleeding and unconscious upon the ground. Though the foreman of the construction crew pressed charges against Takeda, for provoking the fight, as he was the only one with a sword, the charges were eventually dismissed. Takeda was informed by the judge, however, that the era of carrying a sword was over. The reason the altercation had begun was due to the fact that Takeda walked the streets unlawfully carrying his katana.

Cady Goldfield
13th July 2004, 16:15
Apparently, in 21st century Western civilization, sword carrying gets people in trouble, too. But at least this fella wasn't publicly attacked for carrying a "piece."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRITAIN_DRUIDS_TRIAL?SITE=MAFAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Carlos Estrella
14th July 2004, 01:13
Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRITAIN_DRUIDS_TRIAL?SITE=MAFAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Cady-san,

WHERE DO YOU find this stuff?!! (Loved it though!)

Carlos

John Lovato
14th July 2004, 14:38
This one comes from an article about Yushio Sugino from Aikido Journal.

While Sugino had been somewhat surprised by Ueshiba's smallish stature, he had still been impressed by his powerful build, but the martial arts master he encountered at an Asahi News-sponsored demonstration in Osaka in 1942 was altogether different. Sugino was watching the other demonstrators as he waited his turn to take the floor. A small man standing less than 150 centimeters stepped into the demonstration area. He seemed so frail and small as to have little more strength than a child. But his gaze! . . . His eyes swept the crowd with a piercing glare. Sokaku Takeda.

The elderly Sokaku stood squarely in the center of the floor, glaring fiercely like one of those statues of fierce-looking, muscular guardian deities that flanking the gates of many Japanese temples. Scowling at him from across the way were his opponents, a group of powerfully built Kodokan judoka. After a hasty introduction, Sokaku began his demonstration. One of the judoka stepped forward and suddenly launched a full-power right-handed chop directed at Sokaku's head. Sokaku met the blow with his left hand and shifted his body. He grasped the judoka's right hand and threw him down. "Well now! How about that?!" he shouted.

The next man moved in with another furious strike to Sokaku's brow. This time Sokaku met the attack with his right hand, shifting and opening his posture again, seizing the attacker's arm and pinning him easily on his back -- on top of the first attacker! "Next! Come on, quickly, quickly!" The remaining judoka rushed in with similar attacks. Shifting this way and that, Sokaku avoided their strikes and put them down one by one, eventually heaping them into a pile resembling a giant cushion. All wore pained expressions as they tried to wriggle free, but Sokaku pinned them completely by holding their tangled arms lightly in a bundle with one hand.

Sugino felt a shiver up his spine -- part in awe, part fear -- as he watched the elderly Sokaku calmly twist his robust, high-spirited young opponents on to the ground and pin them almost effortlessly. Sokaku's techniques clearly had nothing to do with physical power. They were, Sugino recognized, high-level applications of certain important principles and represented nothing less than the quintessence of Japanese martial arts.

szczepan
14th July 2004, 14:50
One of the judoka stepped forward and suddenly launched a full-power right-handed chop directed at Sokaku's head.
...............
The remaining judoka rushed in with similar attacks. Shifting this way and that, Sokaku avoided their strikes ...
..........hmhmh.......judoka attacking with strikes to the head ????:D :D :D
Not big deal.
It's like karateka attacking with a grip to the shoulder and attempting judo technique ;) :rolleyes:
Now I understand why Sokkaku had no prob to throw them.

chrismoses
14th July 2004, 15:00
szczepan, you obviously need to watch more Austin Powers, everyone knows and fears the dreaded, "Judo Chop!" :D

But seriously, these were all pre-war Judoka so most likely their training and waza would have been quite different from Olympic style Judo you always think of. Some Judoka even study/studied atemi! :eek:

Cady Goldfield
14th July 2004, 15:51
From what I've been told by those with experience, back in Sokaku Takeda's time, Kodokan judoka had a much bigger arsenal of skills than sports judoka do today. They knew how to strike and punch, and they were tough as nails.

Ron Tisdale
14th July 2004, 18:02
Tougher even than Mr. S?

:eek:
RT

John Lovato
14th July 2004, 18:48
Here's a little more from the same AikidoJournal article.

By that time, Sokaku Takeda had long been a well-known figure in the Japanese martial arts world and his techniques echoed among the martial artists of the day. Sugino knew of him, of course, particularly as the Daito-ryu teacher of Morihei Ueshiba. While he never actually spoke with Sokaku directly and had seen Sokaku demonstrate on this one occasion alone, the diminutive Daito-ryu master left a vivid impression on Sugino that has remained to this day, an impression that is strangely two-fold: While he has only the highest regard for the level and quality of Sokaku's aiki techniques, he frankly admits that he found his attitude somewhat poor, particularly in the way he would shower his opponents with taunts and jeers during his demonstration: "Well, look what happened to you!.... Hey you, get up off the ground, hey?! " And while he immobilized them with a pin from which they struggled to free themselves, he would slap them on the buttocks and say, "What a wimp, you call yourself a man?!"

Suginos friend Minoru Mochizuki told him a story about one of his own encounters with Sokaku: "Once I was minding Ueshiba Sensei's home while he was out when Sokaku happened to come around. I served him tea, but he wouldn't drink it. Instead, he filled another cup and ordered me to drink it first. I did and only after that did he finally drink some himself. It was the same with the cakes and everything else I served him; he wouldn't touch any of it until I had tasted it for poison first!" Sugino reflects: "Sokaku certainly had wonderful techniques, of that there is no question. But his attitude, well, it was really something . . . ."

Cady Goldfield
14th July 2004, 18:56
Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
Tougher even than Mr. S?

:eek:
RT

Danged straight! :mst:

szczepan
14th July 2004, 20:51
Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
From what I've been told by those with experience, back in Sokaku Takeda's time, Kodokan judoka had a much bigger arsenal of skills than sports judoka do today. They knew how to strike and punch, and they were tough as nails.
that is of course possible, but it is strange anyway, they didn't attack him with their favorite attacks. And ALL of them tryied to strike him the same way...........bizarre....:eek:


Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
Tougher even than Mr. S?

this is not difficult at all ;)

Robert Cheshire
11th August 2004, 18:29
Originally posted by John Lovato
Here's a little more from the same AikidoJournal article.

Suginos friend Minoru Mochizuki told him a story about one of his own encounters with Sokaku: "Once I was minding Ueshiba Sensei's home while he was out when Sokaku happened to come around. I served him tea, but he wouldn't drink it. Instead, he filled another cup and ordered me to drink it first. I did and only after that did he finally drink some himself. It was the same with the cakes and everything else I served him; he wouldn't touch any of it until I had tasted it for poison first!" Sugino reflects: "Sokaku certainly had wonderful techniques, of that there is no question. But his attitude, well, it was really something . . . ."

There were at least two other interesting bits about this encounter. One was after he (Sokaku)had been there for a good amount of time there was finally a knock on the door. When Minoru went to the door it was a taxi driver saying that the cab fair wasn't paid. It appears that Sokaku asked how much it would cost to get to the final destination then had the driver take him all over town and would only pay the original price. When Minoru asked the driver why he didn't just get the money from Sokaku he informed him that the walking stick Sokaku had concealed a sword and that he killed a dog just before entering the taxi.

The other is the next morning when Minoru went to the room where Sokaku was sleeping he had moved everything to the far wall and had slept leaning against the wall facing the door.

Just because people ARE out to get you doesn't mean you're not paranoid! :)

henjoyuko
1st January 2005, 22:43
Since this little anecdote doesnít necessarily relate to any active thread of which I am aware, and since I thought it might be amusing to members of an Aiki-jujutsu thread, I thought I would post it here:

During one of my many visits to Japan (I think it may have been í86 or í88) I happened to be visiting a police dojo in Sendai. We were having lunch after practice and one of the guys who hadnít been around for training came over and sat next to me. He said that he heard I was there training in Aikido and wanted to relate to me about a great ďAikido senseiĒ his father (who had also been a police officer) had learned from and often told him about. His father said his skill was incomprehensible and god-like. (Now please remember this was in the mid-eighties) I smiled knowingly and asked if his name was Ueshiba Morihei? He answered, ďNo . . . Iím pretty sure it was Takeda Sokaku.Ē

:eek: :D

Ernesto Lemke
3rd January 2005, 20:24
Say Allen,

What gives? Where you so flabbergasted from the overload of meaningful contributions on the Seikokan board to go and seek your fortune elsewhere? :D

So don't keep me/ us in suspense. Inquiring minds wish to learn more of this.....pretty please.

As always, your humble servant (check your PM btw),

Ernesto Lemke

henjoyuko
4th January 2005, 00:24
Thanks Ernesto! Youíre making me look bad because that is all there is to the story. At the time I looked in the Sendai yellow pages (silly me), asked around and even went to Aizu Wakamatsu. But could I find any Daito-ryu or any other Kobudo for that matter? No! But then again my Japanese wasnít very strong and my personal connections led me to various Gendai Budo but no Kobudo. So . . . sorry! I donít recall Kobudo being as widely popular or well known back then as it is today either. I recall very few books available in Japanese bookstores and the crackpots were plowing other martial fields. Too bad too because now look at me and the shady crowd I associate with! ;)

I just thought someone might enjoy the anecdotal story since we hear stories of Takeda Sokaku in martial arts venues but not so much from the police and military whom we know he instructed frequently.

I for one would enjoy any other odds and ends folks may have heard over a beer if that is appropriate for this thread

(Iíll pm you back.)

MarkF
4th January 2005, 04:07
Here is a thread full of them. Well, I don't know how much information is in there, but the same basid request for Sokaku stories did start the thread.


http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16419&highlight=Takeda+Sokaku


Mark

henjoyuko
4th January 2005, 04:25
Thanks Mark, I'll have a look.

:cool: