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Bungle
13th January 2003, 15:15
Hi
I'd like to know what influenced kyokushin karate. I'm thinking of starting it up and i'd like to know a bit about what styles mas oyama used in its creation and his reasons for doing so. Does anyone have any information on this or know where i can go to get it?
Thanks for any help

Amphinon
13th January 2003, 15:24
You will get a lot of reading material if you do an Internet search for "Mas Oyama History".

Ginko
13th January 2003, 20:31
Bungle,

Try:

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/Kyokushin.htm

Regards,

n2shotokai
13th January 2003, 22:08
I could be wrong here but is that the style where there are only young practioners, no one over say 35 as it is full contact.

Don't they have at www.braindamage.com ?

Steve Beale

Bustillo, A.
14th January 2003, 01:02
Originally posted by n2shotokai
I could be wrong here but is that the style where there are only young practioners, no one over say 35 as it is full contact.

Don't they have at www.braindamage.com ?

Steve Beale

Good one, Steve. I take it that was a joke.

True, compared to other non-contact schools they consider their full contact training a more realistic approach and, throughout the world, you'll find plenty of over 40 years old in Kyokushin dojos.

tamashi
14th January 2003, 02:35
You might want to use the search function right here
on E-budo and search for "kyokushin". The style has
been discussed probably 1/2 a dozen times in the last
year. Hopefully one of these threads would be useful
for you.

regards,

Martin H
14th January 2003, 03:32
In his youth in korea, Oyama "studied" a korean version of sumo, that was regarded a childish playing, no serious training in other words. When sent to relatives in manchuria, Oyama was taught a CHINESE art called 18 hands, that today usualy is refered to in kyokushin text as either Shakuriki or Chabee, neither of which is known in korea today.

After he traveled to Japan he first studied western boxing (and some say wrestling) and some judo, although all in a very limited time since he later found karate.
He then enrolled in shotokan under Giko Funakoshi and his father Gichin Funakoshi (the founder of shotokan), and he earned 2 dan.
He then switched to Gojuryu, to train under SoNei Chu who was a Gojuryu bigwig back then (after the war SoNei went to korea and dissapeared into a temple, never being heard of again), and to some degree for Gogen yamaguchi who later founded Gojukai. Oyama was graded to 8 dan in Gojuryu by Yamaguchi.

Through SoNei Chu, Oyama became involved iwith a sect of Buddhism, who encourages martial art practice among its members, but as far as I know, He only trained Goju with them (again with SoNei Chu as teacher).

He was a student of Yoshida Kotaro, a legendary master of Daitoryu jujutsu and Yanagi-Ryu Aikijujutsu, and he gave Oyama a Meikyo Kaiden (a master grade in a older form of grading system, basicaly), but it is unclear what the meikyo kaiden was for, as the Daitoryu wont accept that Kotaro had the right to give it in Daitoryu, and that Yanagiryu was a family style taught only to relatives. No-one have bothered to study the Meikyo kaiden signed by Kotaro (where-ever it is nowdays).
Everyone agree that Oyama was a student of Kotaro though.
It is easy to see the influence of Yoshidas teaching in the self defense training of kyokushin, but this is not taught in all kyokushin schools.

Through Kenji (Kenichi) Sawai,Oyama learned Taikiken (a form of Hsing-I kungfu of the style Yiquan), It would be wrong to say Oyama _studied_ it, but the two masters clearly cooperated and exchanged information. (several well known kyokushin masters who practiced in hombu during this time still practice taikiken as a sideline).
And it is generaly accepted that it deeply influented kyokushin as a style.

Oyama also took up judo again after ww2, this time under the very well known judo master Kozo Sone, and he was to earn 4 dan.
A regular sparring partner in judo, and close friend, was Masahiko Kimura, probably the greatest judo practicioner ever, who defeated helio Gracie in a NHB fight 1951.
Judo techniques was firmly intergrated in the early kyokushin, but with the invention of the knockdown fighting rules and its focus on standup fighting, it faded away from the style, and is today basicly lost.

Oyama also traveled around, looking at several other arts, but not very closely, and it is probably safe to say that they did not influence kyokushinkai all that much. Muaithai, impressed Oyama and he claims that he made some changes due to it, but what changes noone knows. Probably something with lowkicks, but karate already had lowkicks and legblocks before that, so who knows.

In the early days Oyama and his students (who often practiced other martialarts aswell) used to look at any art/style they could find, and borrow what they tought worked.

Oyama is often said to have studied kempo/kenpo (used to be a generic japanese term for chinese or chinese derived martial arts), but this either refers to his childhod study of 18 hands, or to his invlovement in taikiken. He did look at some other Kungfu styles during his travels, but you dont learn a style from, at most, a few weeks study.

n2shotokai
14th January 2003, 13:58
Originally posted by Bustillo, A.


Good one, Steve. I take it that was a joke.

True, compared to other non-contact schools they consider their full contact training a more realistic approach and, throughout the world, you'll find plenty of over 40 years old in Kyokushin dojos.

Yes, that was my dry humor!

I did read somewhere however, that active particpants in Kyokushin over 40 are rare. Something to effect that they instruct but are not active themselves. Perhaps believe none of what you read and half of what you see would be appropriate here.

Mas Oyama on the other hand is definitly no joke. I personnaly call him "The Tank". Nothing stopped him!

tamashi
14th January 2003, 18:54
You may be confusing competing in Kyokushin-style
tournaments with participating in the style.

Tournaments are a young person's game, and yes
over 35-40 of age is rare to see someone compete.

There are plenty of people though who are in
Kyokushin Dojos over that age still learning the style.
hope that helps to clarify
:cool:

CEB
14th January 2003, 19:02
Regardless of style I don't believe any dojo wants to break its deshi. I believe most schools desire it makes its people stronger. If you are a proud card carrying member of AARP and best dojo in your area is Kyokushin-kai by all means go. Good teachers can be hard to find.

n2shotokai
14th January 2003, 19:43
Originally posted by tamashi
You may be confusing competing in Kyokushin-style
tournaments with participating in the style.

Tournaments are a young person's game, and yes
over 35-40 of age is rare to see someone compete.

There are plenty of people though who are in
Kyokushin Dojos over that age still learning the style.
hope that helps to clarify
:cool:

Yes it does! Thank you! I was under the impression that it was required to compete to stay in the style.

Steve Beale

Bustillo, A.
14th January 2003, 21:32
Originally posted by n2shotokai

...I was under the impression that it was required to compete to stay in the style.

Steve Beale

Steve,

You are joking again...right?
Funny.

n2shotokai
15th January 2003, 02:10
Originally posted by Bustillo, A.


Steve,

You are joking again...right?
Funny.

No, I heard that on a board somewhere. It was required to go to as many tournaments as possible and only the better one's stuck around and instructed after age kept them from competition. This was stuck in my head and was knocked out, hence ....... believe none of what you read and half of what you see.

My apologies if I offended!

Steve Beale