The North Carolina Roppokai split (Dean Stewart)

[Tom Campbell]

Seigo Okamoto Soshi of the Daito-ryu Roppokai issued a "letter of expulsion" earlier this year removing Dean Stewart, head of the North Carolina Roppokai group, from membership in the Roppokai organization, and inviting students under Dean Stewart to join the Roppokai on their own. The letter can be seen at http://www.daitoryu-roppokai.org. Mr. Stewart's reply can be seen at http://www.nc-roppokai.com.

Mr. Stewart's site contains many pictures showing Mr. Okamoto apparently enjoying the company of the North Carolina group immensely. So Mr. Okamoto's allegation of unspecified slander and misconduct by Mr. Stewart is puzzling, to say the least.

Can anyone comment, generally or specifically, on what caused this split? Is the Roppokai organization in the U.S., small as it is, in jeopardy?

I'm saddened because from what I've read and viewed (videotape) of Mr. Okamoto and the Roppokai approach, I think there is much of value there, and this matter hampers the success of Roppokai in this country.

Any comments or information from Mr. Keen, Mr. Jakabscin or anyone else with knowledge about this matter would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Justin Campbell]

I'll start by saying that I am not a member of the Roppokai and have no direct knowledge of what happened. Now that I have said that... I'll say this. It appears that the problem was not between Sensei Okamoto and the Deshi of the former North Carolina Roppokai... but between Sensei Okamoto and Mr. Stewart. I say this because if the problems were between the students and Sensei Okamoto... there would not have been an invitation to remain in the Roppokai without Mr. Stewart.

What happened happened. It will not be undone. I hope that one of the senior students branches away from Mr. Stewart and opens a new Roppokai branch in North Carolina. The Roppokai is a great organization and Sensei Okamoto's open teaching policy and willingness to teach (from what I have heard and read) should be kept in the area.

I only hope that the Daito-ryu continues to grow in the US.

[Mark Jakabcsin]

“Can anyone comment, generally or specifically, on what caused this split? Is the Roppokai organization in the U.S., small as it is, in jeopardy?”

Mr. Tom Campbell,

When the NC Roppokai group decided to leave the Roppokai it was our sincere desire and hope that the split would be handled professional, discreetly and with class. Yes, I said when WE decided to leave. A few basic facts: Mr. Stewart has never received the exact letter that has been posted on the web. The Expulsion Letter on the web was posted roughly 2 days AFTER Mr. Stewart overnighted Okamoto Sensei his resignation letter. I do not know why Okamoto Sensei found it desirable to expel a student that had already resigned and do it so publicly. His reasons are his own.

One thing to consider is that of ALL of the active Roppokai members of the NC dojo (NC branch had more active members than all of the clubs in the US combined) left the Roppokai. Everyone had the opportunity to stay in the Roppokai if they desired and yet everyone that saw what happened left and remained loyal to Dean Stewart. We each witnessed the tremendous sacrifices that Dean made for Okamoto Sensei and we each fell victim to Okamoto Sensei’s budo. I don’t know much about budo but I know I want nothing to do with his version of it. To me, a man (gender neutral) is only as good as his word, when a man’s word becomes worthless, so does the man.

If you view the situation from our prospective you realize that no matter what we say we lose. Originally, we had thought to expose our reasons for leaving and back it up with documentation and video proof. What purpose would that serve? Many would still say that Okamoto Sensei is the master and no matter what we say we are 100% wrong. At the least we would betray our own character and self-respect. In short, the decision to leave is simply not anyone’s business but our own, I don’t mean to sound curt, I’m just saying it like it is.

As a group we have decided not to dwell on the negative aspects of past history but to remember the positives from that history. That is why the NC web-site is set-up like it is, with all of the positive memories. We are truly grateful for all that Okamoto Sensei shared with us and wish him and his Roppokai organization all the best. Keep an eye on the NC site, you should notice some new and interesting additions in the future. If you haven’t down loaded the free ShockWave software for streaming video I suggest you do so to take full advantage of things to come. Take care.


mark

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Mr. Justin Campbell,

Any relation to Tom Campbell in the earlier posts?

"I'll start by saying that I am not a member of the Roppokai and have no direct knowledge of what happened. Now that I have said that... I'll say this. It appears that the problem was not between Sensei Okamoto and the Deshi of the former North Carolina Roppokai... but between Sensei Okamoto and Mr. Stewart. I say this because if the problems were between the students and Sensei Okamoto... there would not have been an invitation to remain in the Roppokai without Mr. Stewart."

While I can see from your perspective how you would arrive at such a conclusion I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Dean Stewart was consistently the voice of reason and patience throughout our ordeal in the Roppokai. If not for Dean’s level headedness I assure you the NC Roppokai would have left Okamoto Sensei a year earlier. Dean’s dream was to continue training with Okamoto Sensei as long as there was some hope that the relationship might improve. We are all very loyal to Dean and to each other so we supported him in his decision to stay in the Roppokai. When it became apparent that there was nothing we could do to improve the relationship, Dean sent Okamoto Sensei his Letter of Resignation. About a day after receiving this letter Okamoto Sensei had the Letter of Expulsion posted on the International web-site.


"What happened happened. It will not be undone. I hope that one of the senior students branches away from Mr. Stewart and opens a new Roppokai branch in North Carolina. The Roppokai is a great organization and Sensei Okamoto's open teaching policy and willingness to teach (from what I have heard and read) should be kept in the area."

As far as a senior student branching away to start a Roppokai group I don’t see that as likely. Each of us witnessed what happened and would never allow ourselves to be abused in such a manner. Indeed, Okamoto Sensei sent numerous letters to numerous students asking them to become the new head of the branch. Not only did no one step forward, several people sent Okamoto Sensei correspondence stating exactly how they felt about him. One student even went so far as to send Okamoto Sensei back his ranking certificate, Roppokai belt and patch. For the record, all Roppokai brown belts were collected and returned to Okamoto Sensei as required, along with all of our organization patches (even though we purchased these).

As I stated in the previous message I will avoid going into the gory details of the who, what, when and why. We left and we are much happier now than ever before. Okamoto Sensei gave us a great gift, which we will cherish and continue to learn. Some may find that hard to believe but even Okamoto Sensei knows the truth of it. During his last visit in NC he stated that he had very little left to teach us that we couldn’t figure out on our own with time and dedicated practice. We thought he was joking and giggled but he insisted to the translator that he was totally serious. In short, Okamoto Sensei’s teachings will be kept in the area and shared with anyone interested in learning. Take care.

mark

ps. While this may not satisfy everyone's curiosity, it is all I am willing to say at present and probably more than I should have.

[maney]

I have no knowledge of this situation, so I'm not going to comment. However, I do have a question.

Where is the NC Roppokai Dojo?

fpsm

[Mark Jakabcsin]

"Where is the NC Roppokai Dojo?"

Huntersville, NC (suburb of Charlotte).

mark

[Tom Campbell]

Mr. Jakabscin:

Thanks so much for stepping forward. I don't need to know the dirt. My main concern was whether the North Carolina group would continue to practice/teach. I'm interested in the Roppokai approach to aikijujutsu (whether it has the Roppokai label or not). I just had not been aware of anyone in my area (Seattle) who had trained in Roppokai methods. Since I visit North Carolina from time to time, I was (and am) interested in finding out whether the group was still a viable entity.

I'm glad to hear that it is, and plans to be in the future. I'll check in with the group's site from time to time. I'll also check in before I visit the area to see if I can drop by to say hello.

Howard Popkin of the NYC Roppokai group previously indicated to me that he did not wish to air the group's dirty laundry. When I indicated that I just wanted to get some exposure to the Roppokai methods, he relented and gave me contact information for someone affiliated with the Roppokai who is in Oregon. I'll be contacting that person as well.

FYI, I don't know, and am not related to Justin Campbell who previously posted in this thread (other than being a fellow human being). In all fairness, I think he is just interested in seeing Roppokai teachings take hold in the U.S. He did state he's not a member of the Roppokai.

The politics and personality differences of Mr. Okamoto and his current and former students don't concern me. A chance to practice with sincere people trained in the Roppokai methods does matter to me.

To the extent it bred/breeds frustration and confusion among the North Carolina students, I'm sorry to hear this breach happened. To the extent that it strengthens your group's resolve to practice and explore aikijujutsu more, I'm glad. My best to Dean Stewart and the other members of your North Carolina group.

Take care.

Tom Campbell

[maney]

Originally posted by Mark Jakabcsin
"Where is the NC Roppokai Dojo?"

Huntersville, NC (suburb of Charlotte).

mark


Shoot. That's like 3 hours from me. I was hoping it was closer. Oh well.

fpsm

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Tom,

Come on down anytime. We are not using the name Daito-ryu or aikijujtsu but we training what we know. I believe Howard Popkin will be hosting Okamoto Sensei in NYC later this year if you wish to train with him in person. If you have the chance I would recommend it. Send me an e-mail whenever you are heading this way. Take care.

mark

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Fredrich,

It isn't a bad drive to make on occasion. We have two active students in your area. One in Raleigh who comes down at least once a week and another in Durham that comes occassionally. If we know in advance we will sometimes schedule a mini seminar thing to make the drive more worthwhile. On Saturdays we generally train for 1 1/2 hours but on a mini-seminar we go 4 hours of training plus a 30 minute lunch break. Let me know if you are interested and maybe I can hook you up with one of the guys to split the drive. Send me an e-mail if you are interested.

mark
pslionz@aol.com

[Brently Keen]

Fredrich asked: "Where is the NC Roppokai Dojo?"

And Mark J. replied: "Huntersville, NC (suburb of Charlotte)."

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I'd like to clarify that Dean Stewart's NC dojo is no longer affiliated with the Roppokai branch of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu or Okamoto sensei in any way.

To Mark's credit, he did add that they (the NC dojo) were no longer using the name Daito-ryu.

Out of respect for the individuals involved I do not intend to discuss the details of Dean's expulsion or the withdrawal of the NC dojo members from the Roppokai in a public forum such as this, except to say that Okamoto sensei exceeded his characteristic generosity and handled the situation discreetly and appropriately with much restraint.

I will add however, that while I suppose they can practice and teach whatever they want (it's still free country), they are not qualified/authorized to teach Daito-ryu Roppokai techniques. Anyone who is interested in authentic Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu should seek out legitimate instruction from a qualified and authorized representative of the art.

Brently Keen
Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu Roppokai
USA Western Shibu



[Edited by Brently Keen on 08-31-2000 at 12:34 AM]

[Tom Campbell]

>Out of respect for the individuals involved I do not intend to discuss the details of Dean's expulsion or the withdrawal of the NC dojo members from the Roppokai in a public forum such as this, except to say that Okamoto sensei exceeded his characteristic generosity and handled the situation discreetly and appropriately with much restraint.<

Umm, Mr. Keen . . . "generosity"? "Restraint"? Publicly accusing another of slander without so much as bothering to substantiate the details is neither generous nor restrained. I note Mr. Okamoto's characterization of Mr. Stewart in his letter is in marked contrast with the portrayal of Mr. Okamoto at the NC-Roppokai website.

>I will add however, that while I suppose they can practice and teach whatever they want (it's still free country), they are not qualified/authorized to teach Daito-ryu Roppokai techniques. Anyone who is interested in authentic Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu should seek out legitimate instruction from a qualified and authorized representative of the art.<

Qualified, yes. The history of Japanese martial arts instruction in this country shows that "Authorized" is a political and monopolistic term that does not guarantee quality. And let's go back to the history of Daito-ryu in particular. Who "authorized" Takeda Sokaku to teach the Daito-ryu techniques? Saigo Tanomo? Did Takeda Sokaku receive a menkyo kaiden or other certificate of authority from Saigo? Indeed, did Takeda even teach the specific art that he (according to Takeda Tokimune and associates)learned from Saigo? In Roppokai, is Okamoto Sensei teaching specifically what he learned from Kodo Horikawa?

I don't know the extent or the depth of training that Mr. Stewart received from Mr. Okamoto, nor what other martial arts Mr. Stewart may have trained in. But to insinuate that no one can learn authentic Daito ryu techniques from Mr. Stewart, simply because he doesn't carry the label of "Roppokai" any more, is rather unsubtle slander. I wonder who is being truly generous in the aftermath of this breach.

[Justin Campbell]

OK… Here I go again… Thank you Mr. Tom Campbell for clarifying that we are not related… but I do like your name! :)

What rank did Mr. Stewart achieve before the separation from the Roppokai?

Let me put it this way… Even though Mr. Stewart is NOT a member of the Roppokai, he did in fact, learn the Roppokai techniques and ways up to his current level, and he still has that information. Just because he is no longer “Roppokai” doesn’t mean he had to erase his memory, or that his techniques are no longer authentic. Sure, he can’t call it Roppokai and the rank will not be in Daito-ryu Roppokai but he and his students can benefit from the techniques and training. I am not a member of the Roppokai and know very little about their ways. If I were living near Mr. Stewart, I would train with him. Why? He is, in all actuality, teaching Roppokai and what I learn there would greatly benefit me… and if, by chance, I were to move where an active Roppokai branch were established, I would continue my training there.

I do agree with Mr. Keen, however, when he stated that one should seek out qualified instruction. Daito-ryu is a fad and everyone and their brother is now Daito-ryu or Aikijujutsu or Samurai Aikijujutsu… We have all seen this phenomenon before (Ninjutsu and Gracie) and I hope this fad passes without too much harm done to the art. However, Mr. Stewart WAS training in AUTHENTIC Daito-ryu Roppokai under a QUALIFIED instructor… so why would his techniques be any different?

[Mark Jakabcsin]

"Out of respect for the individuals involved I do not intend to discuss the details of Dean's expulsion or the withdrawal of the NC dojo members from the Roppokai in a public forum such as this, except to say that Okamoto sensei exceeded his characteristic generosity and handled the situation discreetly and appropriately with much restraint."

Mr. Keen,

You can’t discuss details because you have zero first-hand knowledge and at best have unreliable third hand gossip. I don’t want to point fingers but I found your insinuation that you know ALL about the situation as misleading and self-aggrandizing. I can sympathize with your desire and curiosity to learn about the situation, however, I feel your private e-mails to me this spring and covert attempts to learn our business were inappropriate. I understand being far out of the loop in an organization you belong can be very frustrating.

"I will add however, that while I suppose they can practice and teach whatever they want (it's still free country), they are not qualified/authorized to teach Daito-ryu Roppokai techniques. Anyone who is interested in authentic Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu should seek out legitimate instruction from a qualified and authorized representative of the art."

Once again you speak with no real first hand knowledge of the situation. You have no idea what documentation Okamoto Sensei presented Dean Stewart. While it is true that Mr. Stewart is no longer a representative of the Roppokai that has nothing to do with ability or quality. Okamoto Sensei recognized these attributes accordingly and even though Mr. Stewart has left the organization he hasn’t erased the knowledge gained, nor can Okamoto Sensei really say he was technically qualified before but now he isn’t now. The NC group was the largest group for one simple reason, Mr. Stewart can do the techniques AND teach others to do them as well.

In the end the proof is in the pudding and the vast number of the US Roppokai students totally disagree with you and made their decision accordingly. Anyone who questions the flavor of the pudding should attend an Okamoto seminar and grab his arm/wrist, then visit Dean Stewart and do the same. The similarity is undeniable. Having worked with you and the other Roppokai heads in the US I know none can say the same regardless of any paperwork they may possess. While none on this board have experience with Dean they have experienced other Roppokai leaders and know the truth of this statement. Regardless of that, we are not calling our art Roppokai or Daito-ryu or even Aikijujutsu, to avoid the nonsense frequently associated with using those names. I believe this is very much in line with other history and the correct way to approach our future.

Lastly, I don’t wish to get ugly, but we have discussed privately, you using my first name and one of the reasons I would prefer you not. I don’t believe you wish to have those reasons and documentation presented publicly so please correct your indiscretion in the future. Thank you and take care.

mark




[Edited by Mark Jakabcsin on 08-31-2000 at 05:23 PM]

[Mike Campagna]

As a former student of the NC Roppokai Dojo (and a current student of Mr. Stewart), I appreciate the support of some of the members of this forum.

In regards to qualified instruction, one point that I think is important is that the Roppokai is based on principles. Once an individual has a firm grasp of the basic principles, he or she can develop an infinite number of
"techniques" or applications from that.

Luckily for us, Mr. Stewart has this ability.


Best regards,

[Sheridan]

Yet another post from someone who has nothing to do with the NC club or Roppokai. There are many, many branches of Daito-ryu. Descended from Tokemune-sensei (Sokaku's son), Hisa Takuma (the only man who had written proof of menkyo- status from the man himself). These are all still Daito-ryu. Politics play in japan too, I know of a high up in the Takuma-kai that's left for his own reasons. What he teaches is still what he learned from Hisa Takuma and he still calls it Daito-ryu. So what if the NC dojo isn't part of Roppokai anymore? You're still doing Daito-ryu. Promote the art that you love, not the organisation that almost ruined it for you. I see no need for the name Daito-ryu to be dropped at all. Am I way off base here? Everybody else seems to disagree.

[AAC]

The Last Blossom Falls.....
"Sometimes it's preferable to allow a tradition (like in NC) end with honor, than to subsist diluted or distorted, without the proper spirit.......... It matters not that the season is over. If the last blossom falls from the tree, we still remember how beautiful it was in blum. Such glory never disappears as long as we remember, as so it would be with Daito Ryu."
--- Ichikawa Yoshinori Sensei

It was said about the ex- Roppokai dojo in North Carolina.. "In short, the decision to leave is simply not anyones business but our own." Yes.. your correct about that. However the post about having video... and about how everyone witnessed abuse by (implying Okamoto Sensei). Sir, saying that in a public forum and then not be willing to prove it so is slander. Sometimes it's best to be silent. If it's no ones business you sure had a lot to say.
Also, There are other separate points i'd like to make about the dissemination of Daito Ryu. This is not very pretty, and some of you may not like this. Just to refresh us all, this is not the first time a order to "ABANDON SHIP" was given. This AikiBudo group was a (Tomiki?) aikido dojo, turned in short time from letters..... into The East Coast Roppkai Headquarters...Ofcourse, rankings, ect.. were returned the first time also. I have some knowledge about these issues. Thats because 1) I'm originaly a native of NC. 2) I was at Okamotos sensei first NC seminar. 3) I was already a Daito Ryu practitioner. I do have my own personal opinions about martial art sensei.. who suddenly change colors. When I talked to Dean about Okamoto Sensei, he said "I just meet him yesterday".... that with the above facts, were all I need to know. Suddenly... the US largest Roppkai Daito ryu dojo had study groups in other NC cities and even web pages about future groups in other states. To see Daito Ryu or any branch of it, being promoted as a commerical product was dishearten. To see your comments in a public forum about abuse, and yet have a web site in his honor (Okamoto)... is well quite bizarre. Predictions sometimes do come true. You may be practicing Dean's BUDO..... but it is not Daito Ryu. Nor should it be disseminated to the public in any form as such.

Thank You

ps) Yes, your off base.

[Edited by AAC on 09-04-2000 at 08:25 AM]

[Tom Campbell]

Mr. Cobb:

By the definition you offer in the last post, then, "Tomiki" aikido is not aikido . . . nor would "Shin-shin-toitsu" aikido be aikido . . . nor Yoshinkai . . . nor, in fact, should Okamoto Sensei's Roppokai techniques be considered Daito-ryu!

Poor Mr. Kodo must be rolling in his graves. . . two of his most prominent students, Katsumi Yonezawa and Seigo Okamoto, have left the Kodokai and are teaching aikijujutsu techniques in a markedly different way, while still calling them Daito Ryu.

Mr. Okamoto's Roppokai techniques, in particular, differ markedly in form and execution. Yet he still calls his art Daito-ryu.

The point being, that arts evolve. That what the North Carolina group learned was at the very least Roppokai techniques. And if Mr. Okamoto considers what he taught the North Carolina group to be Daito ryu, then the North Carolina group should be allowed to describe their art as Daito ryu.

[Sheridan]

The last blossom falls from the tree..... and in the spring the cherry blossoms bloom again.

Me.

Disclaimer: In my last post I mentioned the Takuma-kai. I am not a member of the takuma-kai and have nothing to do with them. They are a well established organisation and I used them only as an example.

Now that I've covered my bumski; on to other matters. Unfortunately many Daito-ryu practitioners live in a perfect world with their own theories about it's 1200 year old lineage or 100 year old lineage. I have had to fight to keep myself from getting on top of a high horse and preaching of the greatness of aiki-jujutsu to the masses. In the end what each and every practitioner does is follow his/her own heart. Love of budo or money or plain out and out bullying, whatever they use the art for. Throughout my MA career, I've been forced to watch someone close to me follow a different path, i.e commercial budo. I don't agree with this and have spent many hours preaching and just generally making an ass of myself in front of this person that I respect very much. No change after years of trying. So, I gave up and have consoled myself that I'm following what I love. I can only assume that this is what Dean and his dojo are doing. Following what they think is their own path in budo.

"...., were all I need to know." Respectfully AAC, this smacks of the high horse mentioned earlier. All of us look at things from our side of the fence, including me. What I know of this whole deal is 100% supposition. I have gotten all of my information from this thread. The only other information I have is general rumor about the Roppokai organisation itself.

The NC dojo has kept this their own business and are right to. Unless they open up a can of worms, all of us here on e-budo are forced to go on that supposition. And I will admit that I have made my judgement here based on pure supposition and innuendo. What I have heard of the Roppokai organisation (feel free to start flaming folks.) isn't good. In fact a friend who recently returned from a year training in japan refferred to them as a "McDojo". This is not necessarily my opinion, but I'd be lying if I said that I'd discounted a trusted friend's opinion. So, from my side of the fence, what I see is a group of people who have abandoned commercial budo for a more "honorable" path.

Yes, you have a point. I may be totally in the wrong here. But until the NC dojo decide to phone me up at home and give me all the sordid details, this is my side of the fence and I don't feel like climbing over right now.

To the members of the NC dojo, good luck on your new path. If you're following what you know is right, then more power to you. If you end up another "McDojo" well, that's life.

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Mr. Cobb,

“This AikiBudo group was a (Tomiki?) aikido dojo, turned in short time from letters….into The East Coast Roppkai Headquarters….”

Yes, we were an aikido school prior to joining the Roppokai, we have never hid nor denied that, nor should we. If you remember, at our school, we have numerous pictures and articles from those days proudly displayed. You imply that there is something wrong with the fact that we studied another art first, which I don’t understand. Very few students or groups in Daito-ryu have not studied another art prior to switching to Daito-ryu, we are no exception. I do not believe Okamoto Sensei would have made the trip to visit us had we not had prior training, which he watched on numerous videotapes prior to his agreeing to visit. As far as becoming the East Coast Roppokai Head Branch, that was Okamoto Sensei’s doing not ours, the flag was given from him and the wording is actually done in his hand writing.

“3) I was already a Daito Ryu practitioner.”

This I find interesting because, each person that attended the first seminar had to sign a form stating that they were not a member of any other Daito-ryu group (this was done at Okamoto’s request). The next four seminars were closed and only Roppokai members attended. There were three students from NYC that came to the first seminar who were not allowed to participate. Prior to coming they were asked if they were students of a Sensei in NYC whom Okamoto Sensei did not wish to train with. They stated they were not and were informed if they were they would not be allowed to train. As soon as these three stepped on the mat Okamoto Sensei recognized them and stated that they could not train and that they were indeed students of said NYC Sensei. Were you one of these students? On another note, I remember a young man named Antonio who was a member of the dojo for a few short months. I don’t remember him attending any seminars (although I could be mistaken) and discussing how he wanted to go out west to train with another Sensei. This young man didn’t get along well with others, and was constantly saying how much better the training would be out west. He left shortly after starting. If you aren’t one of these two individuals then I still don’t see how you feel comfortable commenting on an issue that occurred more than 2 years after you visited.

“When I talked to Dean about Okamoto Sensei, he said “I just meet him yesterday”….that with the above facts, were all I need to know.”

Okamoto Sensei’s first visit was just that his first visit, I do not know how you find fault with that. Personally, I find it a great accomplishment that Mr. Stewart was able to host such a talented martial artist without having previous ties or introductions. Okamoto Sensei gets numerous requests from individuals that wish to host him and he is very selective. As to the ‘above facts’ you mentioned, I am not sure what you mean. You really haven’t supplied any facts that would support any type of conclusion.

“Suddenly…the US largest Roppkai Daito ryu dojo had study groups in other NC cities and even web pages about future groups in other states.”

After about a year with Okamoto Sensei we had some college students that graduated and moved away who wanted to continue studying, and we a student that went away to college who likewise wanted to continue studying. I don’t see a problem with this and neither did Okamoto Sensei, these students needed training partners for their time away from Huntersville so they started small groups to continue their practice. The closer of the two groups actually made the 2-hour drive, twice a week to train in Huntersville.

“To see Daito Ryu or any branch of it, being promoted as a commercial product was dishearten.”

If our group had been a commercial product it would have filed for chapter 13 (or is it 11?) long ago. I have personally given a great deal of support as does each of our members, although none as much as Mr. Stewart. Many don’t realize how each seminar cost a great deal more than was collect and Mr. Stewart personally covered the short fall. After one of the seminars he had to sell his car to make up the difference. Commercial…..I see it differently.

“Sometimes it’s best to be silent.”

Yes, I agree with you here. Our split occurred 6 or 7 months ago and I was very happy not to say anything. When Mr. T. Campbell made the original post he specifically addressed it to Mr. Keen and myself. I felt obligated to respond and did so. If I had the luxury of hindsight perhaps I wouldn’t have responded or sent a private e-mail. I have attempted to be as sensitive and positive as possible on a subject that holds a great deal of emotion for me. Sensitivity and political correctness have never been my strong suit and I regret that I am not more skilled in the handling of such delicate matters. I will continue to work on my personal deficiencies. Take care.

mark

p.s. I believe numerous people have misunderstood my comment about returning the brown belts to the Roppokai and wish to be more clear. In the Roppokai, the organization owns ALL of the brown belts, not the students. When a student is promoted or leaves the organization they are supposed to return their brown belt to the organization. This is a very nice tradition. When one receives a nicely worn belt and wonders, which of their seniors wore the same belt, it gives a nice feeling of belonging. Therefore, when I mentioned we returned our brown belts I was only commenting that we fulfilled our obligation and not a spiteful event. Personally, I have retained all of my certificates from the Roppokai and will save them indefinitely, along with all of the other ‘paper’ one collects during their life.

[Mike Campagna]

(Unknowingly, Mark and I replied at about the same time. I apologize for any redundancy)

First things first, even though I am a student of Mr. Stewart, I speak only for myself.

While this post is directed to Mr. Cobb, I invite responses from any our forum community.

You stated that we were an Aikibudo dojo, and this is true. Mr. Stewart has a background in Tomiki Aikido. During his teacher's training, Aikido was still evolving and growing, and had a close connection to the roots of aikibudo. This background was very beneficial to us in regards to learning the Roppokai principles. I think, throughout history, martial arts devotees have sought instruction from great instructors in a variety of disciplines. In seeking out Mr. Okamoto to enhance his abilities, why should Mr. Stewart be any different.

You state that Mr. Stewart advised that he met Mr. Okamoto around the time of the first seminar. Seems logical doesn't it? No one has made any claims that there was a long standing relationship prior to the start of our training.

You accuse the NC Roppokai of "commercializing" the art. Is this because we used the internet to distribute information, because we wanted to attract students, or because we had students in other cities and states? The desire to spread the Roppokai into the United States was not one held by the NC group alone. The desire to have a decent number of students is not one held by the NC group alone. Allowing students to visit from other cities is not something unique to the NC group either. We had students who trained with us, and then left for college. These students travelled about 2 hours each way to train, two nights a week. When they couldn't make it to Huntersville, they did the best the could as a small "study group" (your term). I don't see why that is such a bad thing.

I am no expert in martial arts history, but I believe Sokaku Takeda travelled around his part of the world, teaching to multitudes. I also believe there were some students who spent nearly all of their money supporting Mr. Takeda. So if a commercial Daito-Ryu is disheartening to you - you should be extremely disappointed in the founder.

Finally, you state:

"You may be practicing Dean's BUDO..... but it is not Daito Ryu. Nor should it be disseminated to the public in any form as such."

Mr. Stewart, since the separation, has not made any claims to be teaching Daito-ryu or Roppokai. Even so, you cannot remove that influence from his abilities.

In closing, I can only say that I do not recall you training with us in Huntersville. This indicates to me that you were with us for a very short time. You were not there as the group developed in the Roppokai. Your limited exposure to the group effects your ability to make accurate statements about our intentions and our character.

I wish you well in your Daito-ryu training.

Thank you,

[Edited by Mike Campagna on 09-04-2000 at 03:08 PM]

[Sheridan]

The Takuma-kai used to be called the Kansai AIKIDO club.

[Kassay]

I studied under Stewart Sensei of Huntersville, NC both prior to his association with Okamoto Sensei and throughout it. I attended all of Okamoto Sensei's Seminars in North Carolina, and a Roppokai Seminar in Japan. I was also fortunate enough to train at the Roppokai Hombu. I'm concerned by many of the posts regarding the NC Dojo and the Roppokai. I'd like to state my informed opinion on a few things:

1) The few years I spent under both Stewart Sensei and Okamoto Sensei were always informative and inspiring. Both instructors have a wealth of knowledge. Both instructors respect their students and their arts.

2) Both the Roppokai Organization as it exists now and the Huntersville Dojo offer unique, valuable knowledge. The techniques and principles studied in both atmospheres are incredibly effective as both disciplines (in the sense of "do") and practical applications (in the sense of "jutsu").

3)It's not our place to judge. Yes, individuals represent organizations. Yes, single incidents DO speak to character. NO, none of us can properly attest to the reputations of both organizations. Maybe somebody did somebody else wrong. Maybe not. Fact is, it was one thing: One item of business. Judge both schools by their respective leagacies: the Roppokai entering its third decade the Huntersville Dojo still blossoming in its first. The situation being discussed is dirty laundry. It was explored a little bit for the sake of public knowledge. Good. Knowledge is great. Unfortunately, it's a complicated situation that's still murky after over half-a-year. I remind you that the split is one drop in the respective, deep, proverbial buckets of both organizations. Let's drop it, shall we? And explore the many attributes of both orgainzations.

4)I took offense when, at various points in the discussion, instructors' and schools' reputations and integrity were placed under suspicion, perhaps even slandered. I've been fortunate enough to call both Mr. Okamoto and Mr. Stewart "Sensei." Budo as I know dictates that I hold both names in my highest possible regard. I welcome responses, private or public, from those who'd like to suggest that I shouldn't. I'm curious to know just how qualified your opinion is, and I'd like everyone on this forum to know, too.

Let's not gossip.
Let's not throw mud when we don't know our target.

Thanks for your time. Expressed here is simply my opinion based on my experiense. It is here in respect for both orgainzations and to shift this forum's focus to their attributes.

[AAC]

Mr. Campbell said...
"Poor Mr. Kodo must be rolling in his grave... two of his most prominent students, Katsumi Yonezawa and Seigo Okamoto, have left the Kodokai and are teaching techniques in a markedly different way, while still calling it Daito Ryu"
What this has to do with Mr. Stewart or the ex-NC Roppokai group, I have NO idea! Furthermore, you don't know what your talking about. Mr. Yonezawa is not teaching, he is deceased. If your making a comparison between these three, and i've meet them.... your really lost.


Mr Jakabcsin said...
"... I still don't see how you feel comfortable commenting on an issue that occurred more than 2 years after you visited" Hello...? Did you read the first two sentences of my original post? Please read again, I agree 100% it's your business, after all it was your sensei who was given a public letter of expulsion. I don't see how anyone outside the Roppokai, can have a valid comment on the issue.... that you say to have proof of. That's because only the defunt Roppookai group in North Carolina and Okamoto Sensei are in the loop.

In regards to your questions... No, i'm not one of the individuals you speek of. Also, why are you so interested in my identity? What two cents is it to ya? Previous Daito ryu experence is different than active group membership. From you posts, i see gossip. Sir.. Please. At least try to have your facts correct. The gentalmen from NYC like you were also aikido practitioners looking to learn Daito Ryu. They never touched the mat, and were booted after presenting a gift in the name of there instructer from NYC. Anyone that has back issues of Aikido Journal can read about the sensei you speak. Nice try...

Mr Okamoto must have seen a long term future with your instructor and the Roppokai. His Tomiki teacher likely thought the same. I never ment to imply it was incorrect to study other arts. To my knowledge, it's not common practice for aikido practitioners, or other budo groups in mass to jump arts. It would be surprising to see him be so kind to a budo group again. Actions speek louder than words, and sometimes past actions are good predictions of the future.

My origial post was more about the dissemination of Daito Ryu than your political squabble. Your public statements of falling victim to Okamoto senseis budo...(Oh, please) the documentation + video proof of abuse you've spoken about was unneeded. There are issues that are private, and should stay that way. I see no good in going public. Yes, silence is golden.

You said, " Okamoto sensei teachings will be kept in the area and shared with anyone interested..." I'd like to suggest that anyone interested in locating Roppokai Daito Ryu teachings ask one person, Mr. Okamoto!

Best wishes

[Tom Campbell]

Mr. Cobb:

If you had taken the time to read the whole post, the point in mentioning Mr. Kodo, Mr. Okamoto and Mr. Yonezawa is that martial arts continue to evolve. All three instructors taught with a markedly different focus than their teachers. The fact that Mr. Yonezawa is deceased (as is Mr. Kodo) does not change that fact, although I mistakenly used the present tense for Mr. Yonezawa.

Overall, I appreciate the point that Kassay (Joel) makes in his post of 9-5-00:

>I studied under Stewart Sensei of Huntersville, NC both prior to his association with Okamoto Sensei and throughout it. I attended all of Okamoto Sensei's Seminars in North Carolina, and a Roppokai Seminar in Japan. I was also fortunate enough to train at the Roppokai Hombu . . .

1) The few years I spent under both Stewart Sensei and Okamoto Sensei were always informative and inspiring. Both instructors have a wealth of knowledge. Both instructors respect their students and their arts.

2) Both the Roppokai Organization as it exists now and the Huntersville Dojo offer unique, valuable knowledge. The techniques and principles studied in both atmospheres are incredibly effective as both disciplines (in the sense of "do") and practical applications (in the sense of "jutsu").

I've been fortunate enough to call both Mr. Okamoto and Mr. Stewart "Sensei." Budo as I know dictates that I hold both names in my highest possible regard . . .

Let's not gossip.
Let's not throw mud when we don't know our target.

Thanks for your time. Expressed here is simply my opinion based on my experiense. It is here in respect for both orgainzations and to shift this forum's focus to their attributes. <

Very well-stated points, by someone in a position to know. Thank you for taking the time to enter into this discussion, Mr. Kassay (I apologize if this is not your last name). I myself don't have anything more to say.

[Nathan Scott]

Alright guys,

It sounds to me like there is not much more interaction that will happen on this topic that will likely be positive or enlightening.

Unless there is something more to say, or reasons why someone would like to keep yacking about the issue of the NC/Roppokai split (which most of us agree the specifics of which are not any of our business), I'll close (lock) this thread in the next day or two.

The thread will still be available to read - it just won't accept new contributions.

Sounds good?

BTW, I believe Mr. Yonezawa's son has assumed leadership of the "Bokuyokan" organization (somewhere up in Hokkaido) his father had created after having seperated from the Kodokai.

Regards,

[Ronnie Nakamura]

deleted





[Edited by Ronnie Nakamura on 09-06-2000 at 10:08 AM]

[Dean Stewart]

Mr Scott,
I wish to thank you for closing the discussion regarding the split between the NC Roppokai and Okamoto. As one of the main individuals involved, i do not feel the need to express my opinion on this matter(you'll have to see it on the Jerry Springer Show). However, if the discusion regarding Okamoto does not cease, this may keep him from visiting the other groups in the United States. This would be tragic for Brently, Jose and Howard.
Character, Content, and Consistency will always be the paradigm for a great leader. However,it is time that will reveal these truths.
Respecfully,
Dean Stewart