View Full Version : Why isnt there a...

22nd January 2003, 09:23
why isnt there a Forum in Ninpo

Bujinkan Budô Taijutsu
Dedicated to the traditional and ancient Japanese kobudô martial art taught by Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi?

maby i will get some replies to this, because i dont think the forum we are in now, is the "booj" forum, am i right?

Joshua Goldschmidt
Bujinkan Funin Dojo

22nd January 2003, 09:34
i hate to reply to my own question, but dont the bujinkan deserve their own forum as well?

Dave Pawson
22nd January 2003, 09:36

In the dim and distant past there used to be one. A decision was taken by some senior Booj practisioners to ask John to take it off line. Most people for purely specific Booj questions go to Kutaki, when it is up and working. Unfortunalty at the moment it is down.

So in that sense this is not a Booj specific conference. Just people asking generalised questions.

Hope this helps

22nd January 2003, 09:42
Most people for purely specific Booj questions go to Kutaki, when it is up and working.

Kutaki? :confused:

In the dim and distant past there used to be one. A decision was taken by some senior Booj practisioners to ask John to take it off line.

care to shed any light, I would really like to have a Bujinkan Forum again if no one is against it, i mean it kind of belongs, well i think it would be cool to have...

Dave Pawson
22nd January 2003, 10:55
the address is http://www.kutaki.org

In relation to the other section, John is probably the best bet to answer this, but I believe the Shidoshi-Kai in America led the way on this. If that statement is wrong please advise guys.

Personally a Booj section would be good, but I can't see it happening in the near future.

22nd January 2003, 11:07
:smilejapa Dave thanks so much for your replies! no one around here seems to respond to anything i have to say...

:idea: maby its because i made these threads at ungodly hours... while people were sleeping... haha

:wave: thanks again Dave. :wave:

Gary Liddington
22nd January 2003, 15:05
Hello Dave,

You wouldn't happen to know somebody called Dave Cooper would you?



22nd January 2003, 18:10
The information that has been given is correct. A Bujinkan forum will most likley not be put back into place. This forum is open to questions for all kans. You may not always get specific answers you are looking for, but that is the case with any forum. Depends on what the members know and wish to answer ;)

Please check out the FAQ for information on the other Bujinkan sites.

Elf Tengu
3rd June 2003, 18:10
I think I know what people are getting at.

Notwithstanding Manaka Sensei's requests not to have a Jinenkan forum, it could be interpreted that the Genbukan are regarded as superior to the Bujinkan because they have a dedicated named forum. whereas the Bujinkan don't. (And can we please desist from this disrespectful use of the terms 'booj' and 'boojie' etc). Not that there is any animosity or overt suggestion of this from either camp, thankfully, but you must see the point of such a possibility, especially with enquiries from the uninitiated who know nothing of the politics of the Takamatsuden martial legacy.

The majority of people posting on the Ninpo forum appear to Bujinkan, or students of much maligned ex-official-Bujinkan shihan, and there seem to very few enthusiasts of Kosugi/Kim/Hoshino 'imaginative arts' arguing their case, so why not rename the Ninpo thread as the Bujinkan thread or generate a third forum so that there may still be still neutral ground (not that it seems necessary). There is little or no fighting on either thread between Genbukan and Bujinkan practitioners and students, which is a marvellous show of solidarity for our art as a whole, regardless of Hombu feelings on the matter, and there are plenty of posts from members of both organisations on both boards, so why not go for it?

Unlike my country's prime minister, I would be happy to advocate a referendum on the matter. How about a good old democratic vote?

Or does anybody know something I don't? (not unusual for me!)

People will still look for the interesting threads on all boards, or the chance to impress 'enqiring minds', so it's just a case of proportional representation in terms of nomenclature.

What about it?

Dom C
3rd June 2003, 19:12
so why not go for it?

Why not just go to http://www.Kutaki.org as advised in the above posts?


3rd June 2003, 19:29

This is not the place to make the request. A select group of individuals from within the American (and perhaps Australian) Shidoshi Kai are the ones that made the request, so if you have a problem with their request please direct it to them. Try bringing the subject up at the aforementioned kutaki.org as I believe the particular Shidoshi post there.

Elf Tengu
4th June 2003, 17:08
Okay, Kutaki is a good place to go, it's just that it's 'another' place to go, and I think that hte format used by e-budo and sword-forum are the best in the world.

Do you at least agree with me as far as the use of terms like 'booj'?

I'd like to think I didn't type all that last message for nothing!




4th June 2003, 17:53

Its not really that many of the folks here disagree with you...its just that its not in our hands. John was agreeable enough to remove it upon request, and that is where things stand.

As far as the 'booj' thing...I must admit I think its kind of funny, particularly as it is mostly used by current Bujinkan members. It is sort of akin to how some folks refer to Hatsumi sensei as 'The Boss'. I don't really agree with it, but I don't really see a particular harm in it.

Actually since some of the main Bujinkan folks post primarily at Kutaki now I don't see it as much anyway...

4th June 2003, 18:00

Calling Hatsumi the boss I think was started by some of the early british visitors, its aterm used by many people in various police and military orgs.

it is intended as a term of enderment.

I hvae heard people say it to him and he doent seem offended.

as for Booj or Buj

I suppose its like saying kuki Or Takagi

4th June 2003, 19:54
I was under the impression that "da Booj" or any other nickname is a term of familiarity or endearment, especially since it is hardly used in present-day vernacular as a perjorative or derogatory descriptive.

I'd think people would take more issue with folks calling the Bujinkan (or, by extension, and of the x-kans and their various iterations) "them damn dirty teenagers playin' movie ninjers."

I dunno. People taking issue with calling the Bujinkan "da Booj" would be like me getting bent out of shape by people calling me "Bill" or "Billy" or "Will" or "Willie" or any one of a number of variations. I don't find it insulting and it doesn't offend me in any way. Some other William might take issue with it though.

It's a personal issue, I suppose. I don't really use it, just as I personally don't refer to Soke as "The Boss."

Unless Soke or the Shihan say otherwise, I really don't think it's an issue.

Elf Tengu
5th June 2003, 13:28
I dont have a problem with Hatsumi sensei being called the boss, because it's just reiterating his status, and besides, he is aware of it and doesn't mind in the least.

But 'booj' and 'boojie' seem to me to trivialise the great name and history of the Bujinkan to a level that belies it's Japanese origins and makes it sound more like an Australian alfresco culinary pursuit!

And terms like 'booj' get picked up on extremely quickly by people who want their opinions to appear more credible by pretending to be more familiar with the art than they really are. People calling the school by such a name after only a few weeks training is enough to make anyone cringe.

It's bad enough that 99.999999999% of all 'Western' ninjutsu instructors right up to and past 10th dan have the worst pronunciation of Japanese language martial arts terms ever in any case (although to be fair, the same goes for instructors of karate, judo aikido etc as well!), without messing up a term that was carefully created with great inherent meaning to last forever. Imagine the nonsense that would spill from English speaking mouths if the entire system's repertoire was treated in the same manner!

My ninjutsu is pretty laughable to be honest, but at least I did a couple of years of Japanese at night school a while back to get me off on the right foot in this respect.

And one difficulty that will definitely occur from careless use and abbreviation of Japanese terminology is a breakdown in communications between us and Japanese teachers and students. The Japanese have done it to many of our words, and ended up with Japanglish words such as 'pasukon'. So let's not do the same back to them.

Any ideas on 'pasukon'?

It's actually 'Personal Computer'. They took the 'pasu' from 'personal' and the 'kon' from 'computer' and ended up with a word that is no longer recogniseable to a non-Japanese speaker of English.

And what flavour ice cream (aisukurimu) do you think 'banira' is?

Most people say 'banana' but it's actually 'vanilla'.

Let's keep Japanese Japanese and English English!

You say tomayto and I say tomarto, you say potayto and... hang on a minute... who on earth says 'potarto'?

Not I

Jumonji, Jumanji, katana, banana, let's call the whole thing off!!

New thread I think!

5th June 2003, 18:41
I say let 'em do whatever they want, makes things a bit more Darwinian (and the whole "choosing the 'right' instructor" task a helluva lot more interesting for the less-motivated seekers among us), but a healthy dose of chaos isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Let's keep Japanese Japanese and English English!

Too late for that, friend. Any linguist will tell you that when two cultures have prolonged contact for any extended length of time, there's bound to be some sort of bleed-over.

Or do you prefer your English without all that contamination from those damn dirty Romance Languages (especially those snail-eating French types from which we get some of our most popular terminology) and Latin, native/aboriginal loan-words, and a grammar base that's entirely non-High-Germanic Anglo-Saxon but more of a bastardized Scandinavian?

Hey, don't knock it. Chaucer-Speak can be fun.

Besides, is "The Queen's English" even considered "English" anymore, especially by the Yanks, Canucks, Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans, et. al? ;)

By the bye, I pronounce it "Toe-may-toe," damned Yank that I am :D

Agreed, new thread.

5th June 2003, 21:43
If I can jump in here for a moment, it would seem to me that unless Hatsumi himself asked that the forum be closed, that no one Bujinkan entity has the right to request the closure of the forum. They don't speak for us all...

Just my 2 yen...

Ben Warren

6th June 2003, 01:07
Yes, but herein lies the problem as well--

Do you speak for all of them?

Whatever. The Bujinkan forum was much more trouble than it was worth.

Much more fun now.

6th June 2003, 01:23
William is right. Some of us have been on E-Budo for a long time. This forum serves the purpose fine. The BUjinkan forum was a magnet for moronic discussions and flame wars.

I don't think I was among those who signed the petition to have it removed, but I was party to the discussions with those that did. I do agree with them: the Bujinkan was not well served by the presence of a Bujinkan forum on E-Budo.

It's kind of funny that one reason many Bujinkan members didn't like the forum was the belief that John Lindsey is biased against them... and now we have newer members thinking that the reason there ISN'T a Bujinkan forum is because of Genbukan bias. I don't have an opinion on that subject, but I can say that John removed the forum at the request of a fair number of Bujinkan Shidoshi who are actively involved in BBS discussions regularly.