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View Full Version : Would brining back the Bujinkan Budô Taijutsu Forum be good, bad, or are you unsure?



J.Goldschmidt
22nd January 2003, 10:57
vote for good or bad, or unsure and reasoning please.

J.Goldschmidt
22nd January 2003, 12:36
Post a Reply With your reasoning please after you have voted! :D

Dave Pawson
22nd January 2003, 12:46
Joshua

Sorry about that.

Yes I believe it is a good idea, anything that gets people discussing what we do is of benefit. As with anything in our system you should question what you are told, go introspective in your training and that includes what read and discuss.

Boy is this gonna ruffle a few feathers.:D

chikara
22nd January 2003, 17:24
With all due respect, I don't know the history on this apparently contenious issue (will search archives right away).

Let me qualify my vote FOR having a BBT forum by saying that if posters behave respectfully to each other (as they should anyway), then it would be kewl to have it, seeing as how that's the art I'm in.

Play nice!

chikara

pacman2323
22nd January 2003, 17:40
though i am in the genbukan i also think it is fair that there be a bujinkan forum as there isone for us however the ninpo ninjutsu forum brings everyone together from all the diffrent kans which gives diffrent perspectives and new insight into this art

-chi jonesone

Oni
22nd January 2003, 19:25
I pretty much agree with Rick. This poll (and discussion) has actually occured before and the concensus by the moderators and administration of E-Budo was pretty much the same.

These forums were removed for various reasons and this particular forum is open to whatever kan (or even some affiliates) you may wish to ask questions about.

I actually kind of like Ricks idea...to broaden the scope of this forum to just include the kans. I also agree with someone elses post recently about the 'subject' of this forum. In my mind the various kans ARE both modern AND traditional so the term 'traditional' is kind of limiting and technically rules out a lot of conversation (that I allow anyway ;)).

George Kohler
22nd January 2003, 19:52
Originally posted by Shojin
Also no Genbukan Forum. Why do we need sub-forums? If they were "private" forums, then ok, I can understand that I guess. But open forums, why?

Don't you know? The only reason there is a Genbukan forum is to keep me on as a moderator. Just kidding!! :)

icynorth
22nd January 2003, 20:03
Gee I even remember a "neo" Ninja forum:D :rolleyes:
for the record I agree with Rick, If you want to discuss Ninpo you should have one place for it. He is also right that there are already so many private boards for those who wish to be specific. Even for the "neos";)

Tamdhu
22nd January 2003, 20:40
Currently the Genbukan forum seems to largely contain information very specific to their organization. I think they should maintain that focus for the benefit of their members and interested onlookers, and keep this forum as it is for the open discussions it is currently used for.

It's working fine as it is. Attempts to improve will just create new and unforseen problems. There is no perfect solution.

Oni
22nd January 2003, 20:43
One other issue with bringing in ANY new forums is that of moderation. I certainly don't want to moderate more than one forum and finding moderators is not always the easiest of tasks.

J.Goldschmidt
22nd January 2003, 22:04
Currently the Genbukan forum seems to largely contain information very specific to their organization. I think they should maintain that focus for the benefit of their members and interested onlookers, and keep this forum as it is for the open discussions it is currently used for.

This is exactly why i think we need a Bujinkan Forum
so we can do the same...

Bujinkan Ninjitsu and Genbukan are Similar but not the same, both should be respected equally... both should have forums where each can congrigate

Tamdhu
22nd January 2003, 22:31
Kutaki.org will fill this need as soon as it is back up and running.

kirigirisu
22nd January 2003, 22:34
Unfortunately, that decision isn't necessarily up to the moderators and owners of this particular forum.

Just as John Lindsey respected the wishes of Fumio Manaka-sensei's to have the Jinenkan forum removed from E-budo, he respected the wishes of the Shidoshi-kai to remove the Bujinkan forum as well.

This is an issue that needs to be taken up with the Shidoshi-kai of the Bujinkan, I think, as they are the ones who requested the Bujinkan forum removed.

To reinstate the forum would be disrespectful to the Shidoshi-kai, just as a reinstatement of the Jinkenkan forum would be disrespectful of Manaka-sensei.

Besides, in theory, Kutaki is/was supposed to be the Bujinkan-specific forum to replace E-budo's.

Peter Holden
23rd January 2003, 06:20
.

J.Goldschmidt
23rd January 2003, 06:53
Peter?

Kamiyama
23rd January 2003, 06:58
I don't feel the shidoshi-kai have anything to say about any of us having a forum.

If they really have something to say then they should say it here...
But from my experience with the shidoshi-kai.... they do nothing....

Yes, a few do post here.. and thanks for that.. I respect these human beings...

This forum is run by Mr John and his hard working watch guys... NOT THE SHIDOSHI-KAI...

I feel if there is a Genbukan.. then why not a Bujinkan..
But again, I agree with a few of you.. why not just ONE .. and we are all human beings first.. before kan this or kan that.. right?

Well most of us..

Of course I'm pleased which ever way it goes..

kamiyama, ralph severe

J.Goldschmidt
23rd January 2003, 08:29
Ok I think its great to have a place where all nijitsu practicioners can congregate and talk about everything Ninpo, but also, why are people responding negitvely to having a Bujinkan Forum? i mean, its a Style of Ninjitsu, it belongs! Just like Koryu Bujutsu has all the different styles and all things related have their own Forum!
I dont see what neggitive effects reinstating the Bujinkan Forum Would have? no one is forcing anyone to go in and post or read etc.
i mean i really dont want to goto another website for my bujinkan stuff... i mean why should i have to? the only downside sounds like we need a moderator for it...? i havent really heard any comments as to why we shouldnt have it other than extra work hard to find a moderator, which is a valid reason as i see. Im not trying to stir up trouble, it just seems like some people thiunk putting up the Boojer Forum is like opening up the gates of hell.. LOL

- anyways thats all i got to say about that
"Forrest Gump"

Oni
23rd January 2003, 08:37
Originally posted by Funin
Ok I think its great to have a place where all nijitsu practicioners can congregate and talk about everything Ninpo, but also, why are people responding negitvely to having a Bujinkan Forum? i mean, its a Style of Ninjitsu, it belongs! Just like Koryu Bujutsu has all the different styles and all things related have their own Forum!
I dont see what neggitive effects reinstating the Bujinkan Forum Would have? no one is forcing anyone to go in and post or read etc.
i mean i really dont want to goto another website for my bujinkan stuff... i mean why should i have to? the only downside sounds like we need a moderator for it...? i havent really heard any comments as to why we shouldnt have it other than extra work hard to find a moderator, which is a valid reason as i see. Im not trying to stir up trouble, it just seems like some people thiunk putting up the Boojer Forum is like opening up the gates of hell.. LOL

- anyways thats all i got to say about that
"Forrest Gump"

Funin,

There were some not so nice things that occured before, during, and after the removal of the Bujinkan forum from E-Budo. Unfortunately there are some politics involved that should really just drown their ugly heads...but that is the way of things.

J.Goldschmidt
23rd January 2003, 08:41
hey maby you can shed some light on these matters, if not here then, in a PM? and i really appreciate the responses from everyone, because everyones opinion counts!

kirigirisu
23rd January 2003, 08:42
Yes, have to agree.

Much nicer now.

Stop picking at scabs.

Dave Pawson
23rd January 2003, 09:16
Quick question.

Someone stated it was removed at the request of the Shidoshi-Kai, was this the American Shidoshi-Kai, or the Shidoshi-Kai in general. If people don't want to answer this online please PM. Would be interested as talking to a number of Shidoshi over here in the UK, none appear to have been consulted.

Thanks

Dave Pawson
23rd January 2003, 11:40
Jeff

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Dani Koryu
23rd January 2003, 15:25
In my opinion it's enough with only one forum for all the ninpo practitioners.
I for example have to connect myself since my job and no time to jump from one forum to another.
One forum in e-budo for all the kans it's the better option.
For me -I'm Bujinkan- it's now enough problem (time) to have 2 forums (Kutaki and e-budo) to consult and not need one more.

What I would like to see here is more European people in this forum. It seems only americans and some english people come to this forum :(

bufu ikkan

Dani Esteban "koryu"
Shidoshi Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
Barcelona (Spain)

campsinger
27th January 2003, 23:22
Hey, y'all...

I'm probably gonna get stomped for this, but here's my 2 yen worth anyway. I like the fact that with very few exceptions the Genbukan folks and us Booj folks get along pretty well here at E-budo. Shows maturity and all that other good stuff. What I would like to see is a forum for X-kans and a separate one for all the independent folks. It might cut down on the trolls (let me have my pipe dream...).

It would difficult to keep the independent folks from posting on the X-kan forum, therefore defeating the purpose...but it sounded good at the time.

Gambatte...

Oni
27th January 2003, 23:49
We had this before and all it really served as was a mud slinging place for folks to slam on the independants.

There are other boards specifically geared towards independants now that serve this function very well. Jason Chambers has E-ninpo.com and Dave Gibb has his United Ninjutsu Voice.

icynorth
28th January 2003, 01:02
Thanks Micheal, The UNV is a great board for independents. Not Neo's, though. There is no presence from AK or some of the more noteable Ninja cowboys out there. And I totally agree, E-Budo is no place for the Independent Ninjutsu practitioner to discuss anything. That is why UNV was created so we could stop postin here, and you stop having to read it;)

E-Ninpo is also a great board. Jay has so many different angles there.

http://unv.aimoo.com
no flames

George Russell
28th January 2003, 02:26
I'm with Ralphie on this issue. It really ticked me off to have a group of people basicly tell me where I can post my thoughts on things. I say bring the Bujinkan forum back and if the Grand Poobah's don't want to post here then they can post elswhere. Oh yea, I was able to make this post but un-able to vote in the poll.

kirigirisu
28th January 2003, 03:01
I'm with Oni-moderator-dude Michael on this one. Basically the Bujinkan board was used for folks to slam on independents and each other and for showcasing ugly infighting amongst the various Booj "factions" for all to see.

Way too political and definitely way too ridiculous at times.

I'm all for lively debate and discussion and posting whatever whereever whenever, but I don't see the need for a so-called "Bujinkan-only" forum hereabouts. I've seen far more interesting and informative so-called "Bujinkan-specific" threads on this Ninpo forum now than that Bujinkan forum then.

Just my two cents.

Peter Holden
28th January 2003, 03:21
Suggestion.

Why not open up a Bujinkan forum but lock it except for one post which provides a link to kutaki no mura.

A Bujinkan forum shouldn't be on a Genbukan board.

Peter Holden
28th January 2003, 03:47
Originally posted by Shojin
What's with this Genbukan board stuff? It is NOT a Genbukan Board.

John Lindsey is a senior Genbukan member and has the ultimate role in moderation here. He has and will edit or remove posts / threads as he sees fit. This is fine, it's his show, but because of that we should show respect to Hastumi-sensei and not use e-budo.

It is a Genbukan board.


Originally posted by Shojin
By your way of thinking, no blacks should be on this white board. And no one by Americans, specifically texan rangers should be on this board. Please!

That's not what I'm saying at all. If the board was being run by a white supremacist, or a radical anti-American I would suggest people not use it either. In this case it is run by a member of the Genbukan so I would suggest that Bujinkan people use www.kutaki.org instead.


Originally posted by Shojin
There are SO many bujinkan people who don't play all this political Bull, and there are a few who do I am sorry to say. Why don't the ones who like being in a secret little club, go off on your own.

What political bull is this? The same sort of stuff that lead to Tanemura-sensei splitting and forming his own "secret little club"? Is there anything he has done since leaving the Bujinkan that he couldn't have done anyway IN the Bujinkan?


Originally posted by Shojin
And Peter, why are you on the board?

Good question, I agree that I should really just ignore e-budo.

I will finish by saying that I don't care if people who study Genbukan Ninpo, Kamiyama Ninpo, Jinenkan or To Shin do have their own board but I think that people who have loyalty and respect towards Hatsumi-sensei should not be using this forum.

Peter Holden
28th January 2003, 04:08
Originally posted by Shojin
Anyone else reading this as comparing John to"white supremacist, or a radical anti-American " Or are you just saying he is radical anti Bujinkan and Hartsumi? Which is pure BULL SH$T anyone who knows him, knows he is VERY respectful of Hatsumi Sensei...

I am saying neither. My point should be apparent from my previous posts.

Peter Holden
28th January 2003, 04:28
Originally posted by Shojin


Still here?;)

regards,

I see that you have now resorted to this sort of childish game-playing over actual debate.

Peter Holden
28th January 2003, 04:43
Originally posted by Shojin


Listen man,
no childish game playing at all. I was holding you to your word that's all.

Look I don't get it thats all. I even told John in person, I would ban allot of people, you included based on your posts in this thread. Waste time with e-budo you said.

I know you guys will keep trashing e-budo and Tanemura Soke and still will stay on LOL!

I'm done replying to this aspect of this thread. because Iwill end up getting childish because I can't do what it is I REALLY want to do. ban you from e-budo..

If my point of view offends you so much why don't you just put me on your ignore list?

Oni
28th January 2003, 05:04
Ok...*deep breath*




John Lindsey is a senior Genbukan member and has the ultimate role in moderation here. He has and will edit or remove posts / threads as he sees fit. This is fine, it's his show, but because of that we should show respect to Hastumi-sensei and not use e-budo.

It is a Genbukan board.



This is absolute rubbish. I, Michael Stinson, Bujinkan and To-Shin Do member am moderator of this forum. John Lindsey...NOT ONCE...in the entire time of my moderation of this forum has overruled or interferred with my decisions. The only time he has stepped in is when I have been out of town and unavailable. In fact I have moderated HIM from time to time in this forum.

Even in the times when I have behaved in a way I have later regretted John has not overruled me or moderated me. This is NOT a Genbukan board...anymore than E-Budo is a ninja board as I have heard other people say. E-Budo overall is devoted to many different styles and many different practitioners. It is a place where we all try to get together to discuss our ideas, concepts, and yes even differences.

I will not put up a 'for Bujinkan discussion' go to kutaki.org either as people can discuss the Bujinkan and Bujinkan related issues just fine in THIS forum. There are several Bujinkan folk that would rather post here than kutaki...or that enjoy posting in both places. I believe a few of them have spoken up in this thread.

This thread has outlived its usefulness. If you do not like E-Budo don't read it or post here. It is that simple. I am not a particularly big fan of kutaki so I do not go there. Exercise a bit of self-discipline. I think you will show Soke much more respect and loyalty by this than by where you post and discuss things. Frankly I think Hatsumi sensei is a bit more mature and understanding than some of you seem to want to credit him.