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John March
29th January 2003, 23:05
about training in the Bujinkan?

I just started and I have thus far avoided telling anyone other than my immediate family. Do you guys try to explain it or do you just say "I do karate" if it comes up.

Thanks in advance.

kabutoki
29th January 2003, 23:28
hi !
i try to avoid the term ninjutsu. first itīs only three of nine schools and the connotation is not the best you can think of. i tell them i do some old samurai fighting styles, like old jiu jitsu. and i tell them about the unarmed and the weapon parts.
thats about it and it works for most people.

karsten

kirigirisu
29th January 2003, 23:44
As little as possible unless they ask.

Then it's as little a I can possibly get away with.

kimq
30th January 2003, 00:17
"Come down and have a look."

Oni
30th January 2003, 00:19
Heh,

Give em a card and tell them to come on down and try it out ;)

Seriously it really depends on the person asking, and how they ask about it. Depending on how I feel their true level interest is will depend on how thorough and answer I give. I try to pretty much stay away from the 'ninja' thing unless someone directly asks about it. If someone is really interested and specifically wants to talk 'ninja' I may mention the background aspects of things.

I know this question has also been asked before so you may want to search the archives to see if you can find some of the past responses.

Oni
30th January 2003, 00:20
Originally posted by kimq
"Come down and have a look."

Heh...beat me to it I see! Teach me to be longer winded.

kirigirisu
30th January 2003, 01:59
I think it's just a matter of different approaches.

I just don't think my training is anybody's business but mine (and possibly my teachers' and buyu's). The whole "private journey" thing, I guess.

If they seem sincere enough I'll give a short version and go from there, but then again I like to make people work for things. Tends to weed out the flakes and Teenage Mutant Ninjer Wannabes. Some may say it's a matter of developing patience, but then again, I live in the Granola Bowl of Southern California (chock full o' fruits, nuts, and flakes).

John March
30th January 2003, 03:01
Thanks for writing back. I'm going to stay away from the Ninpo reference for now.

Jeffery Brian Hodges
30th January 2003, 04:52
You should call it what your soke calls it. To a person that does not study martial arts the names Ninpo, Jujutsu, Judo, karate, etc, all mean very little to them. Personally I am concerned when a martial artist is ashamed to say what it is you actually train in. If you do not love the martial art you study and are not proud of it and its heritage, don't study it, be a man and stand up for what you believe in :)

sincerely,

Oni
30th January 2003, 05:10
Originally posted by Jeffery Brian Hodges
You should call it what your soke calls it. To a person that does not study martial arts the names Ninpo, Jujutsu, Judo, karate, etc, all mean very little to them. Personally I am concerned when a martial artist is ashamed to say what it is you actually train in. If you do not love the martial art you study and are not proud of it and its heritage, don't study it, be a man and stand up for what you believe in :)

sincerely,

Well....I actually teach and train To-Shin Do and Bujinkan Taijutsu of which Ninjutsu is only a part...so when asked that is what I say ;)

Frankly as far as ninpo/ninjutsu I am not sure how many people actually actively train in those aspects...at least in regards to my background...can't speak for what is done in the Genbukan or Jinenkan. Sure we can say things are done in a ninpo-esque manner....but ninjutsu itself...not so sure about that.

Jeffery Brian Hodges
30th January 2003, 05:28
In the Genbukan our system is called Ninpo Bugei. The Ninpo sanjurokkei contain the bugei juhappan and ninja juhakkei, basically 18 samurai arts and 18 ninja arts combined produce the 36 ninpo essentials. The main parts are ninpo taijutsu, bojutsu and bikenjutsu along with seishin teki kyoyo. Sensei says that the art of Genbukan Ninpo Bugei is not limited to one style and contains many ryu-ha, so say for example in Genbukan ninpo we may be actually doing a technique from Takagi Yoshin ryu jutaijutsu or even Shinden Fudo ryu Dakentaijutsu, while not a ninjutsu ryu per-se it is included in Genbukan Ninpo taijutsu. The jujutsu ryu or KJJR contain ryu such as Yagyu Shingan ryu, Araki shin ryu, etc. Whats important to remember is that noone studies the ryu-ha per-se until you are actually being taught the kata, practice them and test for them and are awarded menkyo, before then what you study is the GENBUKAN Ninpo system which is based off of these ryu-ha. In essence I believe this is a philisophical difference in X-Kan organizations mentality on essentially the same ryu-ha's. Ninpo and Ninjutsu in our organization is two different things.


sincerely,

Oni
30th January 2003, 05:47
Interesting,

Thanks for the breakdown!

Jeffery Brian Hodges
30th January 2003, 06:02
Interesting,

Thanks for the breakdown>>

Your Welcome. Thanks for your response as well.

sincerely,

Kamiyama
30th January 2003, 06:58
My door has a sign on it, Dallas Ninjutsu Academy, above it is a larger sign in KANJI, ninjutsu..

If asked in public I tell them ninjutsu, the little hooded guys who get around at night with black hoods on.. and you never see them.. hey but they are there.. and we do Japanese martial arts.. it's fun.. women love ninja men.. their hands are so deadly but yet strong and soft.. look..see mine..

I'm also very expressive towards what I love to do..
I feel if you like what you do then express it..
It is very hard to be honest to others when you are not hnest with yourself..

ok

kamiyama, ralph severe

Rokushakubo
30th January 2003, 08:58
Originally posted by John March
about training in the Bujinkan?

I just started and I have thus far avoided telling anyone other than my immediate family. Do you guys try to explain it or do you just say "I do karate" if it comes up.

Thanks in advance.

I generally just say that I'm studying the martial arts. The main reason behind this is that if you mention "ninja", the media image of the ninja through years of terrible films like American Ninja, etc... spring to mind, then I have to spend ages explaining that the real ninja were nothing like that.

The worst part about it is that if I say that I study martial arts, nine times out of ten, they automatically say, "do you do Karate?". And that annoys me.

Don Roley
30th January 2003, 11:35
So, why not just answer, "I study in the Bujinkan."

That is the truth, isn't it?

And if people want to ask what the Bujinkan is, keep to the truth and say, "It is a variety of arts taught under the roof of one orginization."

Then you can talk about the bojutsu of the Kukishinden ryu, the locks and holds of Takagi Yohshin, etc.

Why bother even using the N-word anyways? Unless you are practicing the Tonsogata from the Togakure ryu, you probably are doing things more in line with the Gyokko, Shinden Fudo or other non ninjutsu school.

And why do they have to know exactly what you are studying?

Bradenn
30th January 2003, 12:54
Originally posted by Jeffery Brian Hodges
You should call it what your soke calls it.

sincerely,


But for those of us in the Bujinkan, that would mean telling people a different name every few years ;)

John March
30th January 2003, 14:14
Thank you Mr. Roley for your suggestion. I'm going to use it. I did explain the Bujinkan relatively well to my immediate family and close friends. My main concern is my nosy coworkers and drinking buddies.

Of course I say as little as possible unless pointedly asked. Again, thank you. I'm glad I found this website.

The Tengu
30th January 2003, 14:47
I say, "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu."

That's usually enough.

One of the directors of another department here at my job is a godan in judo. Recently his secretary saw my obi sitting in the backseat of my car, and he came up to ask me questions (rather nosily) about the martial art I study, etc.

I told him "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" and he replied with "Oh that sounds like a made-up martial art."

So I told him that it's comprised of nine kobudo ryu-ha which have been aligned in a cohesive manner similar to how the original Kodokan was developed from several jujutsu traditions. I went on into some other stuff about the Sengoku Jidai.

At about this time in the conversation, we both realized he had no clue about what I was talking about so naturally the subject was changed into judo throws and takedowns, which I think he was surprised to find out that I am familiar with.

I bet you'll have a similar experience with 90% of the people who ask you the same question.

About saying "ninjutsu"... you have to know when and where to say it. With the example above, I knew this guy would have written me off without a second thought if I had said anything like "ninja" to him. All three of the ninpo organizations have such a varied background that you rarely need to focus on just one unless you're asked.

If someone is familiar with the name "Bujinkan" and say that it is ninjutsu, I usually try to gently correct them and let them know that ninjutsu is only part of what we do.

Tamdhu
31st January 2003, 16:04
I usually just say 'karate' or 'japanese jujutsu' to the casual drinking buddy or acquaintance, but it all depends on the level of genuine interest I anticipate. If they ask what kind I usually say 'koto ryu' or 'kukishinden ryu' or whatever I happen to be thinking about at the time. Other times I say Bujinkan. I never say 'ninjutsu', because that's not really what I'm studying, at least not directly.

Basically I say whatever I think will steer the conversation to where I want it to go (or not go).

My wife, of course, is fond of jumping into these conversations and saying "he's a ninja!" and cackling maliciously, leaving me to fumble with the result...

John March
31st January 2003, 16:18
The bit about your wife is too funny.

I really like doing this (Bujinkan). But I'm so new at it, it's tough to explain to others.

Tamdhu
31st January 2003, 17:00
It is tough, and I'm very lazy and hate explaining things to people who I'm pretty sure don't really care about the answers. Especially when I'm trying to explain something I only partially understand myself! If they prove to be really interested, and we have time, then I become interested too and I am happy to explain and go into detail as best I can, even if they laugh and say things like "That's stupid, everybody knows that ninjutsu was invented in the 60's by Bruce Lee!" That's fine. I laugh with them and that's that. Nothing to prove. I have no interest in being an advertisement.

It's not a pride/shame thing for me at all. If I were an instructor I might be more in a hurry to advertise and challenge people's perceptions, but I'm not, so I don't. My training is for me. I'm very selfish that way.

bgigas
31st January 2003, 19:26
I'll have to second The Tengu's response. I always say Budo Taijutsu.

Then I usually get [accompanied by a dumb look], "I don't think I've heard of that, is it like karate or TKD?" I tell them no, and that it is a compilation of nine traditional japanese martial arts that date as far back as 900 years ago. That usually ends it there, but one time this girl continued with, "Which martial arts specifially." Mind you this girl had 0 experience with martial arts, so I responded with something like, "Trust me, you've never heard of them." After another probing comment I started to let out the string of nine martial arts, after the 3rd ryuha she laughed and I stopped.

:nin: