grappling and chokes?

[merlin98]

hi
new to this forum, but currently a nidan in vancouver
-my first questions, is i guess similiar to the 'roots' question below...is hombu developing grappling for shorinji, or they refining the techniques from kaiso?
-second question...in the fukudoku-hon,it mentions that chokes are part of the curriculum, as well as weapon techniques...when does one start to learn/practice them?

thanks

paul chan

[Onno]

Gassho __||__

Hello Paul, are you having a good winter in Vancouver?
Here in Calgary it's been snowy lately.

When we were at Honzan in October we did not see any grappling moves being taught as part of a regular class. However I did see some Second year busen adding a few grappling moves into their randori practice. I do not thingk they will appear in the curriculum though.

Your second question is more up to the Sensei you are with and his or her knowlege of those techniques. If your Sensei knows the shaku-jo for example then you can ask them if and or when you may be able to learn.

Hope this helps a bit.

Kesshu

Onno Kok
Alberta Shibu
Calgary Canada

[merlin98]

hi
thanks for the info...it's actually been quite nice in vancouver...no snow at all, though i think the local mountains are getting cranky about it

-about the 2nd year busen students practicing some grappling in their randori...any reason why it won't be in the curriculum?
-i'm guessing in the dojo you go to you guys practice the chokes? if so, where can i get some info on it?

paul chan

[Martin Allerby]

Hello Paul,

Your question is on the edge to a discussion that we had a few months ago (Cross training good or bad?). I kind of lost my interest in this forum after that discussion – it wasn’t very creative… However one shall never ever give up!

The way I look upon it is that Shorinjikempo is one of few arts that has a very complete set of techniques. However it is not possible to be good/best at everything… Maybe your sensei or some of the senpais at your branch have studied some other arts that focuses more on grappling and can teach you. At our branch, SK Gothenburg branch – Sweden, many of the Shorinji kenshis have studied or studies other MA:s in parallel to SK. We often evaluates and test techniques from other arts (for instance during warm up or randori practice) – if they are good they become a part of the training and if they aren’t we through them away.

My advice to you is to be curios and have an open mind.

Best regards,

Martin Allerby

[Onno]

Gassho __||__

Hello Paul.


-about the 2nd year busen students practicing some grappling in their randori...any reason why it won't be in the curriculum?

This topic just came up in another forum so I will post me answer from there.
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Please remember though that just because you do not see it in the curriculum does not mean there is no Shorinji Kempo answer for such a situation. Remember the techniques you learn are to teach you principles, not just correct form. Juho is especially good at this because techniques work very differently from person to person, but the principlals are the same. Here in Calgary Noda-sensei occasionaly shows adaptations of techniques from seated or lying positions. Your apo traning is very useful for this. Also, Hatsuno-sensei in Tokyo (where I trained for two years) teaches police officers and narcotics police a wide variety of very interesting things that are not in the curriculum , but are definetly Shorinji Kempo. They are also based on the same principals that are in the techniques we learn everyday.

I am not sure what level you are, but if you are around shodan or nidan then you might start looking for deeper meaning in the techniques you know and to start searching for new ways to apply those principals. If, on the other hand, you are kyu-kenshi then have patience, there is a whole other level of understanding coming.
______________________________

Also, if you have access to a Kyohan, you will see techniques that are not in the curriculum either. Kaiso, for his on reasons, did not include everything in the curriculum.

As for the chokes, are you asking about defending from them? Or applying them like Jodo chokes?

Take care, I'll go shovel snow. I hope we can meet at the next seminar!

Onno Kok
Alberta, Branch
Calgary Canada

[merlin98]

thanks for the replies...i see that a similar discussion was had in a lower thread.

-onno: i'm currently a nidan, but i've been out of practice for about 9 months due to the birth of my daughter, so i'm slowly getting back into it, but i guess you're right, i need to examine the techniques on a more deeper level
-the chokes i mentioned as listed in the fukudoku-hon as part of shorinji kempo, but does not mention as defense against it or how to apply it...and since we don't really do it here in vancouver, i was curious to see if the other branches taught it.


paul chan

[merlin98]

did i mention that it was a beautiful sunny day in vancouver today with people walking around in shorts? LOL

paul chan
vancouver, b.c.
canada

[Gary Dolce]

Gassho,

The Yondan curriculum includes several techniques against chokes (e.g.,kubi jime shuho juji nage, kubi jime nage, ken jime dori) as well as several techniques for dealing with standing grappling situations ("judo-style" attacks). These include omote nage, maki uchi kubi nage, bukkotsu nage among others. My main concern about these techniques is that we don't really know how to do good attacks like this.

I have always felt that one of the real technical strengths of Shorinji Kempo is the emphasis on dealing with good, fully committed attacks. We spend a lot of time learning to punch and kick, so when we practice defending against a punch or kick, we are dealing with a real attack, unlike the kinds of attacks that you see in some exclusively soft styles of martial arts.

For most techniques, the same thing applies to juho grabbing situations. But this tends to fall apart with some of the more advanced defense-against-judo-attack techniques. I would love to see a lot more time spent learning the attacks we are dealing with before we learn techniques such as omote nage.

Gary

[Onno]

Gassho __||__

Thank you Gary for the info. I do not have that curriculum ... yet;). I am also Nidan.

And thanks go to Paul for the weather report:cry: I am going to Regina for a few weeks, going from bad to worse.


But this tends to fall apart with some of the more advanced defense-against-judo-attack techniques.

I think this is a small loop hole. We learn many defences from Judo type attacks because, in Japan, Judo is so common. We do not practice the attacks maybe because Judo is so common and we are already supposed to know them. Just a thought.

Have to run to work. CYA

Ps. Congrats on the baby, Paul

Kesshu

Onno Kok
Alberta Shibu
Calgary Canada