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Ninja12
18th February 2003, 17:38
I was wondering how did the ninja's pay respect to someone who had died, an older person in there family? I want to pay respect to someone in this way incase they pass away.Something small to them. My friend said something about cloves but im not sure. So if some one can help that would be good.

Thanks

Anthony Bush

The Tengu
18th February 2003, 19:49
It depends on the ninja's religious beliefs.

If the ninja is Christian, then obviously their mourning rituals would be different than a ninja who is Buddhist, who would in turn have different rituals than a ninja who was Islamic...

You get the picture.

Ninja12
19th February 2003, 04:18
im a christian (catholic). What about that?

Thanks

Anthony Bush

bgigas
19th February 2003, 05:17
What The Tengu is trying to say is that if you study ninjutsu, you are a ninja, and therefore your personal religious beliefs would apply to your situation. The better person to ask about this, since you are catholic, is your priest.

:)

Ninja12
19th February 2003, 15:32
See i figured this. But ther has to be something else. If any of you train, Kango gassho is not part of being a preist but is done in ninjutsu training. Im not sure if this applies to shintoism or buddhism but it is not part of being a christain. I do this before training as instructed from the ABD. There has to be more that is as universal as kango gassho.

Thanks

Anthony Bush

Karyu
20th February 2003, 07:12
Originally posted by bgigas
What The Tengu is trying to say is that if you study ninjutsu, you are a ninja
:)


News to me, since the ninja ceased to exist after the Shogunate dissolved and today there's only "practicioners of the ninja arts". Unless there's still a Shogun out there hiring...

kage110
20th February 2003, 11:38
Hi Anthony,

The Ninja were just people in a particular era of Japanese society and therefore the way they honoured their dead was linked to the religion, customs and traditions of that era - nothing more significant than that.

In my opinion, honouring the dead is all about the living and therefore it is what you consider is the right way to honour the dead that is important, not how someone else does it. It will probably make you feel happier if you honour them in a way that corresponds to your own religious/spiritual path (in your case Catholicism) and in a way which you think the person in question would have liked. If your deceased friend had strong convictions towards or away from a particular religion/spiritual practice then honour them by performing a ritual that they would have appreciated in life.

If your friend was a traditional Japanese then performing a Buddhist death ritual may have been appreciated by them but please do not feel that this should conflict with your Catholic beliefs as at the end of the day you are asking your God's blessing on your friend. I would argue that your God is their God/s even if they practiced a different form of worship.

Another thought before I go; the rituals you practice today in the Catholic church are significantly different than those practiced hundreds of years ago when the Ninja were active in Japan - they would have been performed in Latin for a start. Catholicism is a living and breathing form of worship just as Ninjutsu is a living and breathing form of self protection. Don't let yourself get too caught up in the past.

I hope you and your friend both find peace in your own ways.

Hugh Wallace

Ninja12
20th February 2003, 13:22
Well, personally i am unhappy with the way the catholic chruch is ran and feel certain things are not being done the way they should be done. The nine handsigns of kuji-in: they can be done by a ninja for different applications. Im don't know all about kuji-in but if im correct, you don't have to be a specific religion to perform this handsigns but someone who studies the ninja arts. I wrote to ABD and they told me its all on your religioud belief which i am getting from this forum. I'm grateful that i have such good responese that I can feed on. Also, the person is my grandfather who passed away lastnight and i just wanted to make sure I was doing things a certain way.

Thanks

Anthony Bush

kage110
20th February 2003, 14:54
Hello again Anthony,

I am sorry for your loss. You obviously feel a great deal of love for your Grandfather and that is the most important thing of all. Expressing sorrow can be really difficult and often the support networks that we thought we had in family, friends and church dodn't measure up to the task when you really need them. Other times they can surpass all expectations.

Your feelings for the Catholic church are shared by many and are not confined to Catholicism, Christianity or any other 'ity or 'ism. Personally I do not follow any religious practice so I do not have an axe to grind so when I tell you to do what you 'feel' is right that is all I mean. Just feel what you feel - love, sorrow, grief, anger, despair, joy - these things all come with death of a person close to you.

It is true (in my very basic understanding of the subject) that the Kuji is NOT a religious practice. It is however a spiritual practice and the finger symbols do have specific meanings to those individuals who have developed their spiritual energy to a level where they can manifest it beyond their own being. If you were at this level I do not think you would be asking the questions you have just posed so I would suggest that weaving your fingers into the shapes of the Kuji could be a pretty meaningless exercise. However, if it makes you happy and feel like you are doing the right thing then go for it! By using the 'Kuji' (or cloves - to go back to your original posting) in this manner you will be giving it significance way beyond the physical position you adopt.

In the end it is all down to the intention of your thoughts and actions and your intentions could, if you believe in such things, power through to the dimensions your Grandfather now occupies. And if they do, he will feel them and know he is loved.

I wish I could better convey my feelings of sympathy but all I can offer is a stranger's best wishes to you and your family in this difficult time.

Hugh Wallace

Ninja12
21st February 2003, 00:48
My grandfather was a World War II veteran and since im trying to study the warrior arts i feel somewhat connected. I mean he didn't study ninjutsu but he protected his country. I just wanted to do things different since im studying to protect my self and my family the way he did in the army. Well, thanks a lot.

Thanks

Anthony