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Bradenn
22nd February 2003, 23:58
Does anyone remember that piece of junk movie that came out 10 years ago? Dragon: the Bruce Lee story? It was hyped up to be a real life story about Bruce Lee, but turned out to be about as serious and realistic as a Jackie Chan movie crossed with the Matrix.

Anyway, my question is whether or not you think there would be interest in a movie about Takamatsu-sensei's life? Not a documentary, but a movie with actors. It could have all the events from his youth like beating the gang at age 13, his stay in the mountains, his exploits in China and end off with him training Hatsumi-sensei.

If it were made seriously and with decent actors and realistic choreography I think it could be a very interesting movie. Even better than Shinobi no Mono. His life seemed a lot more exciting than Bruce Lee's albeit less publicised. He was after all "The Last Combat Ninja". I wonder however if there would be enough of a market for such a movie nowadays. How many people study Ninjutsu now? About 150 000?

Just for fun, who would you pick as your dream cast to play Takamatsu and young Hatsumi-sensei and others?

Please, no votes for Sho Kosugi:)

John Lindsey
23rd February 2003, 00:10
I have also thought of having such a movie. The problem is that there might be some aspects of his life that might not be very PC in our modern world.

Bradenn
23rd February 2003, 00:21
Not quite sure which parts you're referring to?
I'm familiar with the stories from Essence of Ninjutsu and other books including Paul Richardson's History book. I do recall reading that he killed several people including one by decapitation. That's quite tame by Hollywood standards.Which parts would be considered non-PC? Or is there something I don't know?

tmanifold
23rd February 2003, 00:43
As long as it was "based on true events" (read: something kind of like this happened around this time) the all sorts of license could be taken to make it PC. The problem would be that the main audience would flip if to much license was taken.

John Lindsey
23rd February 2003, 00:52
Or is there something I don't know?

Yes. Some of the details of his business activities have never been documented in print. Nothing terrible really, but better left as private business.

Don Roley
23rd February 2003, 01:07
If you find the Ura and Omote article on the lecture Hatsumi gave about Takamatsu, you will find that he says there are certain things he is not willing to reveal at this time. If you really, really know Japanese history and start looking at the stories about Takamatsu, you realize that certain parts of his life are absent. I have been privy to a few conversations about the matter and I think that in time Hatsumi will make the matter known, but a few people have to pass away first.

So, until the time when Hatsumi or someone who knows what happened in these gaps decides to talk, you have got a big problem trying to put together a movie.

Swinger
23rd February 2003, 05:56
Edited by admin. Message was off topic and useless...

Bradenn
23rd February 2003, 13:45
Originally posted by Don Roley
If you find the Ura and Omote article on the lecture Hatsumi gave about Takamatsu, you will find that he says there are certain things he is not willing to reveal at this time. If you really, really know Japanese history and start looking at the stories about Takamatsu, you realize that certain parts of his life are absent. I have been privy to a few conversations about the matter and I think that in time Hatsumi will make the matter known, but a few people have to pass away first.



Hmmmmm. Sounds ominous.

I could be totally wrong here, but the first thing that springs to mind is WWII.

Takamatsu was a contemporary of Morei Ueshiba and I have heard that the latter came close to being in lots of trouble over activities in China and Russia as well as WWII.

Janin
23rd February 2003, 16:18
No Holly Wood would ¤¤¤¤ it up;)

matthew18
23rd February 2003, 17:59
hi

hope that comes out in the video where Morihei Ueshiba leans KUKISHIN RYU from the kuki family, a while after Takamatsu taught the kata and skills to the KUKI family. As they lost their heritage and had to be
re-educated by the young Takamatsu.

matthew morgan

michaelCODY
24th February 2003, 14:50
Dunno... but I would have Dolph Lundgren play him because he was friggin He-Man AND the Punisher and speaks Japanese because he was in Showdown in Tokyo and kicked Brandon Lee's bootay! So what if he's Americano? Tom Cruise is playing a samurai in some movie coming out... :P

The Tengu
24th February 2003, 15:01
Originally posted by michaelCODY
Dunno... but I would have Dolph Lundgren play him because he was friggin He-Man AND the Punisher and speaks Japanese because he was in Showdown in Tokyo and kicked Brandon Lee's bootay! So what if he's Americano? Tom Cruise is playing a samurai in some movie coming out... :P WTF? :rolleyes:

Rokushakubo
24th February 2003, 16:21
I've thought about a movie on Takamatsu's life too. Someone mentioned earlier that many aspects of his life are still secret, but TBH, I think there's plenty of material freely available that could be made into a film.

I wouldn't have a clue who the actors would be, but it could be a fascinating film.

stormshadow
24th February 2003, 17:24
I read that Hatsumi Sensei has been actually trying to get this movie made. It was on a thread when people were complaining about the cost for tai kai. This one one of the reasons listed as why money is charged for rank promotion and membership and other such costs, to get this movie made.

also Hollywood would probably not make this movie. It would most likley have to done in japan. And I think Hatsumi Sensei should direct.

Jim Gibson

matthew18
24th February 2003, 18:43
quote

"Dolph Lundgren kicked Brandon Lee's bootay."
Only in the movies:D
AS brandon lee was a real martial artist and would knock ten bells out of dolph.lol

matthew morgan

bencole
24th February 2003, 19:21
Originally posted by stormshadow
I read that Hatsumi Sensei has been actually trying to get this movie made. It was on a thread when people were complaining about the cost for tai kai. This one one of the reasons listed as why money is charged for rank promotion and membership and other such costs, to get this movie made.

This is correct. The last I heard from Hatsumi-sensei before I left Japan was that he was in discussions with financial backers and movie makers concerning just such a project. As Don said, it will not happen for a number of years, out of respect for certain individuals who are still alive.


also Hollywood would probably not make this movie. It would most likley have to done in japan. And I think Hatsumi Sensei should direct.

Most definitely Hatsumi-sensei would be involved greatly. Seeing how Hatsumi-sensei has Takamatsu-sensei's personal diaries, Budo papers, photos, as well as first-hand stories, there is no one more qualified to determine the direction of such a film but him.

-ben

O'Neill
24th February 2003, 19:50
Dolph is also a respectable kyokushinkai stylists who won a few knockout contests. How many fights had Brandon won? No disrespect to Brandon but trashing Dolph wasn't needed either. Not to mention the physical attributes that dolph brings to his kyokushinkai karate.

jchetty
24th February 2003, 19:53
Dolph Lundgren is a Kyokushin 3rd dan (at least) - thats nothing to sneeze at. And he is not "Americano" either.

Cheers,
Jairaj Chetty

Oni
24th February 2003, 20:56
Alrighty...now how about Daredevil vs. Mighty Mouse? Come on guys...I mentioned this in another thread...lets can the who can beat up whom stuff. Pointless, unknowable and kind of insulting to those being discussed. Oh...not to mention off topic :p

matthew18
24th February 2003, 21:08
hi

no disrespect to dolp, but hes very well built, kinda bif but slow.
speed kills. please dont start a forum war here, not intended

matthew morgan

Bradenn
24th February 2003, 21:20
Actual transcript from Showdown in Little Tokyo should sort this argument out!

Murata (Brandon Lee): You know, all that upper body strength really slows you down.

Kenner (Dolph Lundgren): I'm not slow.

Murata: You didn't hit me.

Kenner: If I did, you wouldn't be here.

Onmitsu
25th February 2003, 06:53
A Movie about Takamatsu Sensei would b most excellent but could only be made in Japan unless someone with a lot of cash to gamble in Hollywood was somehow convinced that it was a marketable project.
A movie like Tom Cruise's "Last Samurai" could possibly open the door to such a film as the 'last Ninja'.

By the way here are some facts about Dolph (aka Hans) Lundgren:

-He was team leader for the United States modern pentathlon team at
the 1996 summer olympics.
-He was European Heavyweight Karate Champion in 1980-81.
-Australian Heavyweight Karate Champion in 1982.
-Holds a master's degree in chemical engineering.
-Was offered a Fulbright scholarship to study at MIT

Bradenn
25th February 2003, 11:30
Originally posted by bencole


This is correct. The last I heard from Hatsumi-sensei before I left Japan was that he was in discussions with financial backers and movie makers concerning just such a project. As Don said, it will not happen for a number of years, out of respect for certain individuals who are still alive.

-ben


This is the second time I have heard about these individuals who are still alive. Does anyone have some more info or possibly just a clue about who they might be and what relevance Takamatsu had to them?
Is it something political, or legal, or wartime activities or something else?

Bradenn
25th February 2003, 11:33
Originally posted by John Lindsey


Yes. Some of the details of his business activities have never been documented in print. Nothing terrible really, but better left as private business.

Business activities?
Drug dealer? Spy? Assassin?

Or even worse, maybe he bought a flat with the help of a financial adviser who had a criminal record (UK folks will know what I mean).:)

bencole
25th February 2003, 15:52
Originally posted by Bradenn
This is the second time I have heard about these individuals who are still alive. Does anyone have some more info or possibly just a clue about who they might be and what relevance Takamatsu had to them?
Is it something political, or legal, or wartime activities or something else?

Well obviously if people have been elusive about this question until now, there's probably a reason why things are left so grey. Do you honestly expect such things to be answered on such a public forum just because you pose the question? Jeez. You act like this place is a personal discussion between three people, when in fact millions of people could access the information with a few key strokes....

"Oh, and by the way, ...." Duh! :rolleyes:

This sounds like something a green belt would ask.... Dum-da-dum-dum. Bradenn, you've been around longer than that. I expected more from you....

If there is one thing you learn after being around Japanese people for a while, it is don't ask questions about certain topics just because "you're curious."

So how do you know what questions are off-limits? You're expected to just use your brain.... I know it's a hard to thing to ask in these days of the Internet, but please try. It's far more becoming.

-ben

Bradenn
25th February 2003, 16:23
Originally posted by bencole


Well obviously if people have been elusive about this question until now, there's probably a reason why things are left so grey. Do you honestly expect such things to be answered on such a public forum just because you pose the question? Jeez. You act like this place is a personal discussion between three people, when in fact millions of people could access the information with a few key strokes....

"Oh, and by the way, ...." Duh! :rolleyes:

This sounds like something a green belt would ask.... Dum-da-dum-dum. Bradenn, you've been around longer than that. I expected more from you....

If there is one thing you learn after being around Japanese people for a while, it is don't ask questions about certain topics just because "you're curious."

So how do you know what questions are off-limits? You're expected to just use your brain.... I know it's a hard to thing to ask in these days of the Internet, but please try. It's far more becoming.

-ben

Well, Morihei Ueshiba got himself into a lot of trouble on his exploits in China and Mongolia. He faced a firing squad and also narrowly avoided being tried as a WWII war criminal. He was also arrested by the Japanese government for being part of Omoto-kyo and suspected of subversive activities. Not things to be proud of and yet this is all made public in books where millions of people can access the information with even less than a few mouse clicks.

Seeing as how two people had already brought up the mysterious events publicly, I don't see the problem with asking about them. I didn't expect anyone to answer them publicly and just presumed that people would PM.

I hate to sound like an academic snob or to bring up education, but as someone with a Phd and with a teaching position, I think I have an appreciation of how to use a brain regardless of whether we are in the Internet age or not.

I've always had the impression that Takamatsu was some kind of a saintly paragon of martial virtue and justice. Someone who is revered as a warrior-god. It's a bit of a surprise to learn that maybe all is not as it seems. So, yes I am curious and by the way yes I am a green belt
:)

kimq
25th February 2003, 16:27
Originally posted by bencole

So how do you know what questions are off-limits? You're expected to just use your brain.... I know it's a hard to thing to ask in these days of the Internet, but please try. It's far more becoming.

It appears Ben has spent too much time in Japan - a big part of their PC culture has gotten into him. I read the above as "Stop being such a ignorant jerk," in case you needed a translation.

The Tengu
25th February 2003, 17:23
Originally posted by Bradenn
I've always had the impression that Takamatsu was some kind of a saintly paragon of martial virtue and justice. Someone who is revered as a warrior-god. It's a bit of a surprise to learn that maybe all is not as it seems. So, yes I am curious and by the way yes I am a green belt
:) Bradenn,

I think it's obvious that this is information that your superiors do not wish you to have. I doubt that pushing the subject further is going to yield you any positive results.

Bradenn
25th February 2003, 17:46
Originally posted by The Tengu
Bradenn,

I think it's obvious that this is information that your superiors do not wish you to have.

I don't have a problem with that.
Aaah forget it. Let's move on.

LadyHydralisk
26th February 2003, 04:19
Originally posted by Bradenn

I've always had the impression that Takamatsu was some kind of a saintly paragon of martial virtue and justice. Someone who is revered as a warrior-god.

No he was much cooler than that. :p

When I read this thread I get the impression the subject of his past is taboo matter for discussion. Personally i don't feel that way. However: Extensive discussion of his personal life and exploits may be out of line on a public forum where outsiders are looking in...particularily considering the cultural\regional gaps of the members of both this forum and the Bujinkan, and for the simple fact that practitioners of ninjutsu are historically a persecuted sector of the human race.

Several American Bujinkan practitioners I have spoken too have discussed what they know of his stories with both awe and respect, which is appropriate (though not always the case) for members of the Bujinkan who should have a good understanding of the issues that might be confronted when discussing Takamatsu's life in detail. Most of the Bujinkan in this area are comprised of Rangers from Ft. Benning which also is a factor in being able to deal with the reality of war stories.

The internet makes monsters out of mice, which is why it is better that such stories that are personal and special to the Bujinkan remain off public boards and are discussed over a table with friends and associates in the Bujinkan where they do not have to be subjected to flame wars or criticism from ignorant people who are quick to post before they think.

Basically, for the same reason I would not share native Lakota rituals with anyone who asked without knowing they would handle the information with proper respect, is the same reason why you will probably have to build a personal repoire with someone in the Bujinkan before they will share one of their good stories with you.

Snce I don't know any of you, you can assume that I am not directing this at anyone in particular.

bencole
26th February 2003, 05:16
Originally posted by LadyHydralisk
Basically, for the same reason I would not share native Lakota rituals with anyone who asked without knowing they would handle the information with proper respect, is the same reason why you will probably have to build a personal repoire with someone in the Bujinkan before they will share one of their good stories with you.

Now THAT's what I call "using your brain." :D

That was a VERY insightful post, Naomi. Very insightful....

-ben