View Full Version : The Almighty Oyama

Orso Rosso
25th February 2003, 01:22
Sensei Oyama (sorry, I forget his first name; I don't mean to confuse him with any other Sensei Oyamas out there) has had tons of stories circulating around him, everything from ripping a bull's horns off with his bare hands to giving out black belts to students overseas, based on videos they sent in to him.

Anyway, my opinion of this guy isn't the grandest at the moment, but that's probably because I don't know enough. Any insights as to his history (and first name) would be appreciated.

25th February 2003, 05:10
You're thinking of Mas Oyama. He was a kyokushinkai guy and the real deal by all accounts. There's video of him and the bulls, he used to do it fairly routinely. Kind of brutal - I understand the technique was to knock the horns off the animal by hitting them from the side, then the animal bled to death.

25th February 2003, 12:40
Mas Oyama wasn't a Kyukoshinkai guy, he was the Kyukoshinkai guy. He invented the style. He was a really tough person and the videos demonstrate him having tons of fighting power into his later decades. The guy was built like a brick. An impressive guy all-around.

As for the bull-fighting videos, compared to bronco busting in the United States, they ain't much. Those weren't longhorns he was tossing with. Watch him fighting with humans and see his power. Watch him wrestling with bulls and see him grandstanding.

25th February 2003, 13:26
I one particular video, he was gored by the horn of the bull and even continue to fight.

It didn't stop there - after his 18 month wilderness training, he was ready to prove he was ready. He went to a local slaughterhouse and punched a bull between the eyes causing it to collapse to it's knees.

You can find many sources of information about Sosai Oyama on the Internet with a little serach.

25th February 2003, 13:36
Many people consider Oyama's feats as parlor tricks.

There are many threads here about him and them, but there
are those who maintain that Oyama had the horns cut so they'd
break and stuff like that. If you look at what some of his
people do, it's obvious trickery like cutting glass with
knifehand strikes. Any fool would know that many of these things
are not possible.

He may have been a tuff SOB (I don't know...never met him.) But,
many of his tricks deserve to be in the hall of shame with the
Ki fakers.


Andy Watson
25th February 2003, 14:58
Hmm, although I have never tried it, I thought that knifehanding the neck off a free-standing bottle wouldn't be that difficult given a certain amount of training.

Any comments KK guys?

Orso Rosso
25th February 2003, 18:05
So what was this about how he handed out black belts? Not that I doubt your words, but like Tetsu, I'm still skeptical.

25th February 2003, 20:55
For a 16 year old, you seem like you have a problem with the whole Oyama history. I have 2 videos of the very fight he got gored by a sharp horn on my site. Incidently, he kept on. The bulls have no martial arts skils, true. But I don't see you jumping in a Bull ring.

He travelled around the US fighting Wrestlers, boxers, and just about anyone who would step into the ring. Most never lasted past 1 round. All were KO'ed.

Turning the time machine back a little further... At the end of WW2, he killed a korean soldier who pulled a knife on him, with a single strike. There were many witnessses.

Turning the clock back further... He spent 18 months in the mountains honing his skills. He would break river stones with a single strike (I have video) and chop small trees with his hands.

I'll take it that you are too young to know better... Mas Oyama is highly respected world-wide. I have spent 17 years studying his art and have not heard anything about "parlor tricks" associated with Mas Oyama.

I also noticed in your profile you study Shotokan. You might want to remember that Kyokushin is a close cousin of Shotokan. Between the two styles, there are 10's of millions of students.

25th February 2003, 21:13
Addressing the Black Belt Certificates...

Just about all styles give honorary rank (Elvis Presley recieved an 8th Dan Rank from a 4th Dan Instructor; Sean Connery recieved Honorary Black Belt from Mas Oyama). Big deal.

There is also a difference between buying a Black Belt off ebay than earning it.

Example #1... You trained and were seperated from your instructor for an extended period of time - you send a video showing your progress and your instructor says, "You are a Black Belt".

Example #2... Your instructor moves and you continue training. You go to a local Representative who tapes it and recommends a Black Belt for you. The head of the branch agrees and endorses your Rank Advancement.

Example #3... Your instructor passes away. You are left with a Brown Belt. You continue training yourself and even learn to train others. You are reviewed by someone from a different style and they promote you to Black Belt.

Example #4... You do a home-study course. You video tape yourself and when you think you are ready, go before a Black Belt to be tested.

Example #5... You win a bid on Ebay for a home study course. You study, video tape yourself and send the video to the seller of the course for your Black Belt.

Example #6... Same as above only you get your Black Belt certificate and black belt - all without a video.

The problem is not video, because video is a tool that can be used.
The problem is also not the honoary title, those people were not pursuing the certificate.
The problem is the intention. If you want a Black Belt, go buy it from Centuryfitness.com. If you want a certificate, ebay has those...

It is a common practice for many, many styles and instructors - including yours. If you don't believe me, asking him all of the above examples. If he says yes to even one, then he is as guilty as Mas Oyama!


Gene Williams
25th February 2003, 22:29
I agree with David. I have known and trained with many Kyokushin guys and they are serious martial artists. Oyama was the real deal, too, and there are too many corroborating witnesses to deny it. Many KK schools have departed into full contact stuff and heavy breaking feats (I've seen some and they are impressive, not counting the flashy parlor trick ones that some do. To pick up a good sized river rock and break it bare handed is not something anyone can do. I don't know about the practical value of that ability but it has to be a helluva confidence builder!), but the schools I visited and trained in stressed kata and basics and good solid karate. You can't hold Oyama responsible for how some of his followers went astray. Bobby Lowe in Hawaii was an early Oyama student. I met him in the late sixties and, trust me, he was the real deal. The best performance of the kata Jion I have ever judged was by a KK student. Gene

Mark Barlow
25th February 2003, 22:44
I've shared dojo space with 2 Kyokushin instructors and have many friends in the style. While I've never studied any Karate system, I have great respect for both the power and the practicality of KK and would not hesitate to point a potential student in their direction. Due to the severity of training and dedication required, I doubt you'll ever meet an authentic KK black belt who can't offer an impressive display of whupass.

Steve Williams
25th February 2003, 23:08
From what I have seen heard witnessed etc.... of Mas Oyama and Kyukoshinkai I don't think it belongs here in baffling budo.

It is more deserving in the Karate forum.

Gene Williams
26th February 2003, 00:30
Agreed! How did it get here, oh, new young guy asking questions all over the place. Maybe the moderator could move it. Gene

26th February 2003, 15:18
I don't want it - new guys with agendas ruin my day!

I suddenly got a lot of "who's better?" topics and they make me nervous.

if your interest is real and not just agenda trolling, check the archives, there must be a dozen threads on this topic. Then, report back here.