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Hotsuma
4th March 2003, 05:32
I recently aquired the Koto ryu tape, and on that they cover strike conditioning. If you haven't seen the tape, they wrap a tree in straw and cloth and strike it continuosly. By doing so, they harden there bones, which allows them to hit harder. I have begun to do this training, albeit without the cloth and straw. What I was wondering is what are peoples opinions on this type of training? I have heard the Hatsumi has spoken out against it, since it can lead to arthritis. That being so, is there a way do perform this training without causing arthritis? Any opinions or suggestions would be much appreciated.

michaelCODY
4th March 2003, 13:53
Your right, he has spoken against it. Not only due to the arthritis that you mentioned, but also because that type of training just isnt needed anymore because our livingstyle is different. We dont have to worry about things that Takamatsu sensei had to while he was growing up. I had that question too actually a few years ago. I wanted one of those wooden dummy things that you see those Kung Fu guys pound on. But then I thought... "ow..."

Eric Baluja
4th March 2003, 21:02
Originally posted by michaelCODY
Your right, he has spoken against it. Not only due to the arthritis that you mentioned, but also because that type of training just isnt needed anymore because our livingstyle is different. Not if you're in law enforcement, the military or any profession where there is the possibility of violence. Also not if you live in certian parts of NYC and Detroit. :)

Actually, my gut feeling is that the basis of the prohibition on strike conditioning is liability, which is probably the same reason randori is officially de-emphasized (even though both go on at the individual dojo level).

All things in moderation and out of sight of greedy lawyers.

Ka1yama
5th March 2003, 15:17
IT sounds like if you want to be able to hit hard, you should condition your hands to take and give impact. I think hitting a punching bag or focus mitt, which has much more give than a tree will allow you to pratice hitting something, with all the benefits that brings as well as toughen your hands. As for the idea that this is no longer necessary, I respectfully disagree. People who have to work with their hands alot, ie. people in pre-industrial societies have/had rough and conditioned hands from physical work. In our society of working behind desks it's probably more necessary to condition your hands since we lack the accidental conditioning physical labor would bring. That's just what I would do.

In writing this I thought of something, Hatsumi-sensei talks about the 16 fists, and different uses of them in many of his books, videos and at tai kai, if he doesn't think you should be conditioning your hands, how are you supposed to apply the 16 fists? Does he recommend another method to train your hands?

Neil Stewart

Kamiyama
5th March 2003, 19:49
I recently aquired the Koto ryu tape, and on that they cover strike conditioning....

Have you seen my basic taijutsu tape on the makiwara?
If not.. you have missed a very good example of hitting..

I find the most important point of conditioning is the 'willing' heart to really hit with the body on another person with intention.
Next important point is the distance between you and the target. This distance must be understood to have good hitting.
Another point would be how strong your forearms are to make a good fist and take the impact in the hand and wrist areas once you have made impact on the target.

More important is not getting hit yourself. Unless it's a woman trying to make contact with you.

Never the less, I wouldn't trouble myself with hitting with the fingers and the toes.. work on the simple strikes and do them well.

I've found just having layers of carpet and hanging them on a tree works very nice if you do not have a place to put it. Cover the carpet with some type of soft cloth. Hit away.

I believe a heavy bag works the best. Always wrap your hands till you are a 'real man' then you can hit without them..LOL..

"I have heard the Hatsumi has spoken out against it, since it can lead to arthritis"

I guess I will see if it does when I grow old...
I've never heard of any martial artist having trouble because of hitting a makiwara or a boxer hitting bags...

kamiyama, ralph severe

Hotsuma
6th March 2003, 02:15
Thanks for all your replies. I like the focus mit and bag idea. I'll probably try that.

Kamiyama, I have not seen the video you are speaking of. Any way you could postit on the forum.

Gary Liddington
6th March 2003, 09:29
It's also a good idea to massage the hands/wrists/knuckles after the conditioning execises.. Especially if you don't wrap your hands/wrists.

regards,

Gary