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Gene Williams
5th March 2003, 18:47
I'll post this here even though it should be under Ryukyu Unarmed Ma; it just seems everyone posts here about kata topics. We practice the standard Suparimpei of Goju-ryu (Higaonna style but we are Shito-ryu).
I have also heard it called Pechurin. Now, I practice a kata called Pechurin which was taught to us by a high ranking Okinawan stylist. He said it is of Chinese origin and is practiced in Okinawa. It is a complex kata, but nothing like Suparimpei. Has anyone else run into this? I have read both that Pechurin is simply another name for Suparimpei, and that there is a separate kata called Pechurin. This is making me crazy. The Pechurin I am talking about does not appear in any other of the Okinawan ryu requirements. I would appreciate any input. Gene

Victor Smith
5th March 2003, 20:49
Gene,

I recently read Mario McKenna's translation of Itoman Seijin's 1934 "Toudi no Kenkyu" list of Okinawan kata.

He remarked that both Pechurin and Supreimpe (a Dai and Sho version) were included on the list, with no answers as to whether the actually were separate or the same kata.

So this won't answer your question, but it seems the questions been around for quite a while.

Victor Smith
Bushi No Te Isshinryu

Steven Malanosk
5th March 2003, 21:02
Hello,

It is true that PeiChuRin is the original name for the kata SuparEnPei, however.

Firstly, the PeiChuRin although consisting of the same movements / ideas, has a slightly different embusen.

Secondly, it depends on where this version that you speak of came from. Kata nuance varies from Ryu to Ryu and even from Ryu Ha to Ryu Ha.

Also, as far as Chinese forms in relation to Okinawan. Many have the same name or Kanji, and share ideology / technique, but the pattern and or look of the form may vary.

Also, Kata was not meant as a dance so to speak, so sequence is not universal.

This is however contrary to the Chakra / Mudra principals of the Bhuddist origins of many of the forms. So it also depends on where your going with it.

Exactly who was the high ranking Okinawan who taught you this form?

What is his / her lineage?

That mite be a good place to start.

Rob Alvelais
5th March 2003, 22:26
Hi Gene,

I've seen Kotaka's group do a Peichurrin. It's a lot like Suparinpei, but with more open hand movements and that drunken gung fu wave, like leaning.

I've absolutely no idea where the kata comes from.

We do the Shito version of Suparinpei, ourselves.

Rob

Gene Williams
6th March 2003, 00:26
Thanks guys. This may never get solved. I am familiar with several versions of Suparimpei. Rob, I'm sure you and I do the same one. No, this kata is something pretty different. It is clearly Chinese in origin; someone may have just arbitrarily called it Pechurin. I hate that. Anyway, not seitei, so I'll just keep it and wonder. Gene

Rob Alvelais
6th March 2003, 02:07
Originally posted by Gene Williams
Thanks guys. This may never get solved. I am familiar with several versions of Suparimpei. Rob, I'm sure you and I do the same one. No, this kata is something pretty different. It is clearly Chinese in origin; someone may have just arbitrarily called it Pechurin. I hate that. Anyway, not seitei, so I'll just keep it and wonder. Gene

I wonder Gene. If you do the goju one, then mine is awfully similar, but different. The one I do is about exactly the same as the Shito Kai version. My instr got away from the goju versions of most kata, except for Seipai. But, he does teach the Shito version of Seipai, too. But, for the last 10 or so years, that I'm aware, we're doing the Shito version of Suparinpei.

Rob

Gene Williams
6th March 2003, 02:25
Yeah, I've noticed a difference among Shito-ryu schools. Some do the kata exactly as Goju do them, others with not quite so deep breathing. I do the Kuniba versions of most kata, but I went to a couple of Higaonna seminars where he worked on Kururunpha and Suparimpei with seniors. The patterns and moves are pretty much the same, but I liked the Higaonna fine points and bunkai, so I do them his way. Plus, I still have occasional access to Higaonna, Kuniba has gone to the Big Dojo. Gene