Choun No Kon

[fuwafuwausagi]

Gang:

I seem to recall hearing that the Choun No Kon of Matayoshi kobudo is an entirely different form than the Choun No Kon of the various "Yammani"-ryu lineages. Can anyone confirm or deny this.

Thanking you in advance for any consideration you give this matter,

[Rob Alvelais]

Hi Kevin,

I can confirm that.

Rob

[fuwafuwausagi]

hmmm...any speculation on why the name is the same?

[Rob Alvelais]

Can't really say about the Matayoshi version, but perhaps it's because the characters have similar sounds, but different meanings? I've never seen the characters for the Yamane Choun no kon. Paul, you have any info on this?

Anyway, what I recall is that the Yamane Choun no kon comes from Chogi Kishaba and part of the name ("Cho", I presume) comes from Chogi.

Rob

[tetsu]

I always thought it was some inside joke that so many bo katas
have similar names. If you've ever seen a list of katas and tried
to count the ones that rhyme with "Shushi" you know what I mean. :)

Johnathon

[PingAnTu]

All I know is that Chogi Kishaba designed the two kata and they're named after him. The only Yamanni lineage that does these kata is the Chinen/Kishaba lineage. I believe he did it on request of the Okinawan prefectural government and he's got video of it in the local library for all the kiddies. It's not part of the traditional Yamanni ryu curriculum but borrows heavily from it.

Good question though. I don't know why it has the same name as other kata. It's thoroughly Yamanni ryu though -- heavy emphasis on the ol' bouncing bo. I'll see if I can get an answer.

Paul Adamson

[GojuMaster]

Knowing that the Yamane-Ryu version is a recent creation and seeing that it is not at all similar in technique to the Matayoshi version leads me to wonder what the Taira-derived version might look like.

Is anyone here familiar with the Taira-Lineage version of Choun No Kun?


Gang:

I seem to recall hearing that the Choun No Kon of Matayoshi kobudo is an entirely different form than the Choun No Kon of the various "Yammani"-ryu lineages. Can anyone confirm or deny this.

Thanking you in advance for any consideration you give this matter,

[Doug Daulton]

Knowing that the Yamane-Ryu version is a recent creation and seeing that it is not at all similar in technique to the Matayoshi version leads me to wonder what the Taira-derived version might look like.

Is anyone here familiar with the Taira-Lineage version of Choun No Kun?Mr. Smith,

I am a practitioner of the Taira lineage and am familiar with Choun no Kun. I'll share what I know and bring this thread to the attention of Dometrich Sensei (http://okinawakobudo.com/) , my teacher. As always, I'll defer to her as definitive answer and encourage you to send her an email (http://okinawakobudo.com/content.php?page=about_contact) as she does not spend a lot of time in these forums.

With that said, it is my understanding that Yamane-ryu is a bit older than most folks think. Also, Taira's primary ambition was the preservation of dying waza and kata of the Ryukyus. So while forming the comprehensive RKHS curriculum, a great deal of Yamane-ryu became part of the curriculum. To this end, I would suspect our Choun no Kun is pretty close to the main line of Yamane-ryu.

That being said, I've never been a position to compare the two lines of Choun no Kun. As mentioned earlier, I suggest you contact Dometrich Sensei, of the Taira-->Akamine line and a direct deshi of Akamine Eisuke. Mario McKenna, a frequent e-Budo contributor, is a direct student of the Taira-->Minowa line. Julian Mead (http://www.rkagb.com/) is the leading Western proponent of the Taira-->Inoue line and has always been gracious in answering my questions. Tim Jurgens, another e-Budo member, is a student of Akamine Hiroshi Sensei. Any of these folks should be able to offer additional insight.

Best Regards,

[GojuMaster]

Doug,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this. I will send Dometrich Sensei an email and see if I can arrange some method of side-by-side comparison.

Best Regards,

Russ


Mr. Smith,

I am a practitioner of the Taira lineage and am familiar with Choun no Kun. I'll share what I know and bring this thread to the attention of Dometrich Sensei (http://okinawakobudo.com/) , my teacher. As always, I'll defer to her as definitive answer and encourage you to send her an email (http://okinawakobudo.com/content.php?page=about_contact) as she does not spend a lot of time in these forums.

With that said, it is my understanding that Yamane-ryu is a bit older than most folks think. Also, Taira's primary ambition was the preservation of dying waza and kata of the Ryukyus. So while forming the comprehensive RKHS curriculum, a great deal of Yamane-ryu became part of the curriculum. To this end, I would suspect our Choun no Kun is pretty close to the main line of Yamane-ryu.

That being said, I've never been a position to compare the two lines of Choun no Kun. As mentioned earlier, I suggest you contact Dometrich Sensei, of the Taira-->Akamine line and a direct deshi of Akamine Eisuke. Mario McKenna, a frequent e-Budo contributor, is a direct student of the Taira-->Minowa line. Julian Mead (http://www.rkagb.com/) is the leading Western proponent of the Taira-->Inoue line and has always been gracious in answering my questions. Tim Jurgens, another e-Budo member, is a student of Akamine Hiroshi Sensei. Any of these folks should be able to offer additional insight.

Best Regards,

[TimJurgens]

I totally agree with Doug's comments.

I will add that the kata sometimes has been modified by the Taira -> Akamine line to be done in accourdance with how we generate energy from the hips. This may result in our version having a different "feel" to it if you will but generally the sequence of techniques and direction in which they are done is the same. The timing may be influenced by other kata and may not match exactly.

I have not seen the Matyoshi Lineage Chon no Kon and am not familiar with the Kanji used for it but here is the Kanji used for ours. Choún no Kon 趙雲の棍

http://ryukyu-kobudo.com/kata/add_kata.htm

If someone could post the kata from the Matyoshi side that would be interesting.

Also this forum may be interested to hear that I will be moving from Tokyo back to Okinawa on the 7th. After 10 years in the big city I am ready to go back to the tropical island paradise and our Hombu to train with the Shihan there. If I can assist anyone from there in any way please let me know and I will see what I can do.