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Sheridan
5th September 2000, 19:51
My question is about Yagyu Jubei. I have recently finished reading 'Lives of Master Swordsmen' by Makoto Sugawara. In it the author has a chapter dealing with each of the first three masters of that school. The name Yagyu Jubei is the one that I'm familiar with. The name is legend and has numerous fictitious characters modeled after this historical figure. (Ninja Scroll!:smilejapa) The author's chapter gives the historical name as Yagyu Mitsuyoshi, but refers to him as Yagyu Jubei twice. Once in the chapter about Yagyu Munenori his father, and once in the chapter on Ono Tadaaki.

My question is this; where did the name Yagyu Jubei come from? Does it have something to do with the Kanji characters used to make up the name? Is it some sort of Yagyu Shinkage-ryu secret?

Meik Skoss
5th September 2000, 22:52
Yagyu MitsuToshi (the Yagyu family pronounces that kanji as Toshi with a T, not a Y -- so MitsuYoshi, although a more common pronunciation, is how "outsiders" say the name) was the man who studied with/received a license from Kamiizumi Isenokami Nobu(Hide)tsuna and is considered the "founder" of what's come to be commonly known as Yagyu Shinkage-ryu.

Yagyu Munenori was his second son and was recommended by his father to serve Tokugawa Ieyasu, the founder of the last martial government of Japan. He was both a teacher of swordsmanship and political advisor to Ieyasu and his son, Hidetada, the second Tokugawa shogun.

Yagyu Jubei Mitsutoshi (not Mitsuyoshi) served Iemitsu, the third Tokugawa shogun as kenjutsu shinanyaku (instructor of swordsmanship) as well as (according to legend), a "spy" -- so that's how all those stories of Yagyu-ryu ninjutsu came to be. Really, though, it's better to think of Jubei as an undercover inspector of conditions throughout the country.

Sugawara's book should be taken with a large dose of salt. A lot of the stories in the book are wrong in a number of details, if not in entirety. This can be expected when it comes to popular legends and so forth, so I wouldn't use it as a "source" of information. It's a fun read, but suspect.

Nsherrard
12th June 2002, 07:37
Just picked up a couple books real cheap at my local used book store. I always search their Martial Arts section, and sometimes get some good stuff (found one of Draeger's Budo/Bujutsu trilogy there once for $10!). So I noticed these books of Shinkage-ryu Sword Techniques Vols 1 and 2. At a glance, they looked interesting, so I grabbed 'em. Upon closer examination I became curious. Would this be Yagyu Shinkage ryu? Is this guy any good? Why is Shidachi an enormous mustachioed white guy? Why do I have so much trouble following the technique when there are approximately 362 pictures on each page? Seriously though, I was just curious if anyone knew anyhting about these books. Thanks!

Nathan Sherrard

Soulend
12th June 2002, 15:52
Yes, it is Yagyu Shinkage Ryu.

Check out http://shinkageryu.topcities.com/shinkageryu/index.html for some info on Watanabe. I would imagine that he is quite good.

I hope Vol. 1 isn't too bad..I currently am awaiting(backordered) that one from Bugei..

fifthchamber
12th June 2002, 16:43
Hi all,
I have them both and thought that they were a tad too 'loose' to really get any ideas on the art, especially the history and lineages sections..more should have been written perhaps..Or not. It is a training manual afterall..
That would also be the reason that you have a hard time following the Kata through the book..The book is only a basic introduction to the art and is not meant as a learning tool so much as to give a basic 'idea' of the Ryu's tactics and forms..A better one by the same author is 'Shinkage Ryu Nyumon' which covers Sangakuen no Tachi through a few other sections and has a little more history and information on the arts practises today..Although still quite clearly not meant as an instructional tool..
A better 'Koryu' bet would be 'The Deity and the Sword' by Otake Risuke, a teacher of the Katori Shinto Ryu..I thought that the balance was better than in the Shinkage volumes and the books were more easily understood (For me anyway...).
Good books, and worth having anyway.
Abayo

Walker
12th June 2002, 18:37
From Meik Skoss

Minato Research has also published several books on both the Yagyu Shinkage-ryu and Katori Shinto-ryu. I don't think they are worth the money. The Katori Shinto-ryu books at least have qualified people demonstrating the techniques, but so what? As reference material, maybe they have some value. Assuming that you're actually training in the art, perhaps you'll understand what's in the three books of the set, but it's very doubtful. With regard to the Yagyu Shinkage-ryu books: no way! Save your money. (I'm not carping just because the author is the teacher of a different group from the one to which I belong. It's that the technique is terrible. Do you want to study bad posture or bad mechanics? Think about it.)
http://koryu.com/library/mskoss5.html
Perhaps an extreme viewpoint, but a viewpoint nonetheless.

Soulend
12th June 2002, 23:45
I definately respect Meik's opinion..I didn't realize these were the books he was talking about though. Seems strange that a man (Watanabe) who has been training and teaching so long would display bad technique in his books. Oh well, as I've already plopped down my $30 for the first volume, guess I'll get to see firsthand soon enough.

Dave Lowry
14th June 2002, 17:06
"Where's Mr. Lowry when ya need him?"

If I may quote the estimable Buckwheat, "Heah I is!"

And once heah, why have I been summoned? Someone asked if anyone knew anything about Mr. Watanabe's books. That's a trifle broad, isn't it? Sure, I know about them, so do millions of others who've seen them in bookstores or have copies.
Do you mean to ask if they are useful for teaching YSR? Oh, sure. Take your buddy and your copy into the basement and hold it with one hand and use your shinai with the other and have him do the same and work your way through the curriculum. What's the Japanese expression? Asameshi mae? You'll be done before breakfast.

Now if that's all you wanted, excuse me; got to get back to my "Teach Yourself Neurosurgery" book.

Cordially,

pgsmith
14th June 2002, 18:30
I was reading your response at work, and it made me laugh out loud thus earning me several dirty looks! (Working in a rat maze of cubicles destroys the sense of humor I guess!) Just had to say thanks very much for the laugh!

Cheers,

Henrik Jonsson
14th June 2002, 18:56
Originally posted by Dave Lowry
Do you mean to ask if they are useful for teaching YSR? Oh, sure. Take your buddy and your copy into the basement and hold it with one hand and use your shinai with the other and have him do the same and work your way through the curriculum. What's the Japanese expression? Asameshi mae? You'll be done before breakfast.

Now if that's all you wanted, excuse me; got to get back to my "Teach Yourself Neurosurgery" book.


While good sarcasm is appreciated by even more than those who
bought the book series, I believe the question was over
Mr. Skoss quoted comment about Mr. Watanabe showing bad
technique in the book.

I have the most humble opinion on the planet, I assure you, but
I do think there's a vast difference between the obviousness
of not being able to learn a koryu martial art from a book,
and the disappointment of the book's readers if the "teacher"
displaying the techniques show off bad form or posture, as
Mr. Skoss seem to imply. I believe the latter was the question.

(How's that for too long a sentence? Even when being
thorough, it's tough to get the point over the bough and
through to the reader. ;-)

Oughver and ought. :-)

Soulend
14th June 2002, 19:24
Originally posted by Dave Lowry
"Where's Mr. Lowry when ya need him?"

If I may quote the estimable Buckwheat, "Heah I is!"

And once heah, why have I been summoned? Someone asked if anyone knew anything about Mr. Watanabe's books. That's a trifle broad, isn't it? Sure, I know about them, so do millions of others who've seen them in bookstores or have copies.
Do you mean to ask if they are useful for teaching YSR? Oh, sure. Take your buddy and your copy into the basement and hold it with one hand and use your shinai with the other and have him do the same and work your way through the curriculum. What's the Japanese expression? Asameshi mae? You'll be done before breakfast.

Now if that's all you wanted, excuse me; got to get back to my "Teach Yourself Neurosurgery" book.


I wasn't suggesting that one could teach themselves kenjutsu with a book. An article written by Mr. Skoss suggested that these books(if they are in fact the same ones Meik was talking about) displayed poor technique and bad posture. Since you are a respected YSR practicioner(and the only one I know of here in e-budoland) I figured you may be familiar with these books, and if you happened across the thread you could comment on the whether the techniques shown are poor or not, or even tell us something about Mr. Watanabe himself, as the originator of the thread asked "Who is this guy?".

Actually, the remark with your name was an afterthought..along the lines of 'hmm, an expert would probably be able to answer these questions'. As I didn't accompany it with any kind of correspondence asking you to come on here and enlighten us, I didn't equate it with a summons. In short, I really didn't expect you to show up, having your hands full with other things like the aforementioned self-taught neurosurgery.

Sorry to have somehow bothered you.

Nsherrard
14th June 2002, 22:22
I think Mr. Lowry's post was meant more lightheartedly than it was taken. Most of the sarcasm seems directed at my question "does anyone know anything about these books?" The obvious answer being the one he illustrated (but I must say, "millions" seems a bit optimistic, though I'm sure Mr. Watanabe wouldn't complain). Let me clarify; I am not a student of shinkage-ryu, nor am I interested in becoming one. I have already invested a fair amount of time in another koryu, and have no wish to persue something else. However, I do find it interesting to examine other styles, and see how they do things, purely for my own amusement and/or education. Are we to believe that you yourself, Mr. Lowry, own no books or videos that demonstrate arts other than those you have chosen to pursue? To put my question in the most blatant terms possible: The logic of the techniques in these books was not apparent to me. Even when seeing a style I don't practice myself, I am usually able to follow the logic of the techniques. I was particularly unimpressed by Mr. Watanabe's partner. However, the little information I could find points to pretty good credentials, so I came here to find out if I was looking at a good demonstration of shinkage-ryu or not. Not because I want to teach myself, but simply from a desire for personal edification. I hope this has cleared up any misunderstandings. Jeez.

Nathan Sherrard

Scott Irey
14th June 2002, 23:07
That's the problem with you Sherrard....always so damn vague. I suppose you now expect that Mr. Lowry will pull himself away from practicing neurosurgery in the basement on a willing (or probably not so willing) family member, and write you a detailed analysis of the books. Why don't you just ask for a simple opinion on whether or not the guy who wrote the books is credible. Even better yet, you could politely ask if anybody has an opinion. You might get slightly less sarcasm in the replies to your posts that way.

Nsherrard
14th June 2002, 23:54
Scott Irey wrote:

"Why don't you just ask for a simple opinion on whether or not the guy who wrote the books is credible. Even better yet, you could politely ask if anybody has an opinion. You might get slightly less sarcasm in the replies to your posts that way."

As always, you give some great advice Mr. Irey. Truth to tell, I'm a little ashamed I didn't think of that myself to begin with. It seems so obvious now! I will certainly be more careful in the future.:D

P.S. So, how is your name pronounced, anyway? It's like ee-ray, right?;)

Nathan Sherrard

Soulend
15th June 2002, 01:00
I received an e-mail from Mr. Lowry. I don't believe he will be commenting further here(in a public forum) on this subject, for very good reasons.

That's it for me too,

Nsherrard
15th June 2002, 01:49
Yikes! Sounds pretty serious. I hope it's nothing life threatening. Let's see, friendly banter on e-budo suddenly turns deadly serious, mentions of private e-mails are made, yep, it can only mean one thing. Diagnosis; politics. I guess that's the end of this topic...

Nathan Sherrard

Dave Lowry
15th June 2002, 03:02
Gentlemen,
No, no, not politics of any sort. It is, in my opinion, a matter of all of us recognising the limitations of civil discourse on a public forum.
Let us say Mr. Craik sampled my paella. If he has any sort of discernment, his account of the meal among his colleagues might be something along the lines of "Geemenintly! I nearly wet my pants in ecstasy that stuff was so good! I mean, every bite was a mouthful of Paradise itself!?E Or, he might confide to them that the meal was the gustatory equivalent of root canal work and that, in a side-by-side comparison, rat poison might edge out my paella in his culinary preferences.
Either opinion might be appropriate in private conversation. On a public forum? Such commentaries would be thought either fulsome or gauche when offered to a general audience. They are too personal.
If anyone wants to comment on an author's work, especially negatively and especially in the context of a review, that is one thing. (Save for those concerning my own work, which is uniformly indefectible.) But ad hominem criticism seems out of bounds and ungracious.
As I observed to Mr. Craik, most of those engaging here have e-mail addresses available and if private comments on these matters are solicited; fine. But I would not want to partake in publicly unprovoked attacks that would accomplish little save for reducing the level of comity here and I don't believe any of you would, either.

Cordially,

Henrik Jonsson
15th June 2002, 09:27
Originally posted by Dave Lowry
But I would not want to partake in publicly unprovoked attacks that would accomplish little save for reducing the level of comity here and I don't believe any of you would, either.


Crap! That Common Sense-jutsu always gets me.

If only there was something in my head to stop the things coming
out of my keyboard. :-)

Soulend
15th June 2002, 11:32
In all fairness, I don't think anyone here would have expected an ad hominem attack against the author, only an opinion of the material from someone familiar with the content. But I understand your position.

Perhaps we could at least get a studied review of The Amorous Adventures of Ashida Kim? (http://www.ashidakim.com/dojopress/catalogbk41.htm) Now that would be interesting..

Soulend
15th June 2002, 11:50
Either opinion might be appropriate in private conversation. On a public forum? Such commentaries would be thought either fulsome or gauche when offered to a general audience.


Mr. Lowry, if I remember correctly, aren't you also a restaurant critic for a St. Louis magazine?

Nsherrard
17th June 2002, 21:09
Let us imagine for a moment that I am attending the grand opening of a new four-star restaurant. Also at the gathering are more than a few experienced food critics. My palate is not possessed of the same level of sophistication as the gentlemen I'm seated with, but no matter, I intend to enjoy the various dishes nonetheless. The first dish arrives: Seared Foie Gras with sour cherries, figs, vin santo and candied ginger. Yum! But as the first bite touches my tongue, something seems off.
"Is this supposed to be really fantastic?" I ask myself. "I really don't know, maybe that's just the way Foie Gras is done. I just wish I could ask someone if this were a fine example of this dish. Aha! I'll ask one of these here food critics."
Me: "Excuse me, sirs, can you tell me anything about this dish? What do you think of it?"
Food Critic: "Well, young whippersnapper, you think your pretty hot stuff, eh? Why don't you just pick the meal apart piece by piece, figure out how they cooked it, and then go cook it yourself. Yeah, sure, give that a try, see how you do <snicker snicker>."
Me: "But I just wanted to know if..."
Food Critic: "Whoah there. Let me give you an analogy. Let's say I was a martial artist..."

Please note this is meant only in a humorous way, but it also reflects to some degree my (perhaps biased) view of this thread. I understand perfectly the theory of "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." I'm a bit less familiar with "if you don't have something nice to say, say something flippant." OK, *sulk off* Talk to ya'll later.

Nathan Sherrard

Ellis Amdur
18th June 2002, 03:54
When I first saw Mr. Watanabe in a demo in about 1980, I was told by people who should know (research will either verify or discount - if true, it may answer a few questions people have posed):

Mr. Watanabe's father was well-known as a top-level YSR exponent, with the highest level of licensing. i've only heard very respectful things said of him.

Mr. Watanabe, to the best of my knowledge, got his formal YSR from his father. I do not believe that he had any other teachers.

His father died when Mr. Watanabe was quite young.

With respect

Ellis Amdur

Nsherrard
19th June 2002, 12:08
Mr. Amdur, thank you for the info, I appreciate it.

Nathan Sherrard

sven beulke
8th June 2006, 14:39
Hi All!
In Serge Mols "Classical Fighting Arts of Japan" there ist reference to a Yagyu Ryu. Is this ryu the same as the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu? There are pictures of the Ryus Hichuden no Maki. I guess Chuden means middel Lvel teaching(or similar) what does Hi mean? Yagyu Ryu also seems to have kamajutsu in the curriculum (reference for this could be found in Mr. Mols Book on Weapons). Anyone has a clue?
Kind Regards
Sven

Josh Reyer
22nd August 2007, 13:02
Hello, folks. A local culture-zine called "Gekkan Nagoya" (Nagoya Monthly) has a little feature on the new soke of (Owari) Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. I figured some might be interested, so I translated it. Here you are:

Carrying 440 years of history, the 22nd-generation soke
Shinkage-ryu, created by Kamiizumi Ise-no-kami at the end of the Muromachi Period. Under the auspices of the Owari Tokugawa clan, Yagyu Shinkage-ryu Heiho, familiar to many due to Yagyu Jubei and others, has continued down even to today, preserving the old forms since the days of the 2nd generation soke, Yagyu Munetoshi.

Yagyu Koichi, 55, is the 22nd generation soke. Centered in Nagoya, he guides roughly 300 students in the heart and technique of Shinkage-ryu.

A Surprising Encounter -- Grandmother and Yagyu Shinkage-ryu

"My encounter with Yagyu Shinkage-ryu can be summed up in one word. 'Surprise.' Becoming soke, as well, I think now I was being guided by my ancestors."

Born in Tokyo, Yagyu Koichi lived with his parents, his brother, and his paternal grandmother. In a life centered around his blind grandmother, he naturally learned compassion for others, and a spirit of self-sufficiency.

When he was 9 years old, he casually told his grandmother an anecdote about Yagyu Shinkage-ryu that he learned from a comic book. His grandmother responded, "You know, I am the daughter of Yagyu Toshichika sensei, the 19th soke of Yagyu Shinkage-ryu."

Koichi was amazed, and this was the start of a strong adoration of Shinkage-ryu. In junior high and high school, he threw himself into kendo. But upon entering Musashi University as an economics student, he learned that the Yagyukai had lectures in Tokyo, and joined without a moment's hesitation. Twice a month, he received the guidance of 21st soke Yagyu Nobuharu, his father's cousin.

After graduating, he began working for a large bank. While working he continued his training. There were times when he arrived late, but he never considered quitting.

"Shinkage-ryu is a part of my life. I can't imagine my life without it," he says.

To continue the Yagyu Shinkage-ryu tradition of direct transmission to son and heir, in 2000, at the age of fifty, he resigned from the bank and was adopted into the Yagyu family. He moved to Nagoya and devoted himself to the Way of the Sword. After four years of refining his skills, he officially inherited Yagyu Shinkage-ryu in February of last year, becoming the 22nd soke.

Defeat today the self of yesterday.

The most important characteristic of Shinkage-ryu is "Attack, Waiting, Front, Back; do not focus on one aspect." (懸待表裏は一隅を守らず ) It indicates not persisting in one thing, but rather flexibly changing form to match one's opponent. In order to do that, it is necessary to keep one's mind in a steady state, influenced by nothing.

"If your mind is shaken, the body will not move correctly," Koichi explains. "In Shinkage-ryu's kata (seihou), it's not a matter of being good at it or bad at it; it's a matter of being able to do it or not. There's no faking it."

This is a warning to himself, as well. The previous soke, Nobuharu, passed away in May of this year. He continued his personal research right up until just before his death at age 88, and in the end Koichi could not surpass him.

"Even though I was named soke, until now I still felt like I was on probation. But with Nobuharu-sensei's passing, little by little my consciousness as soke has grown. I've come to realize the weight of what my predecessors have passed down, and 440 years of history."

The wall is still high, but what must be done is clear. The mission he's been given is to accurately pass down to later generations the Yagyu techniques and heart.

"Defeat today the self of yesterday." (昨日の我に今日は勝つべし ) Keeping this family precept in his heart, his days of training will continue.

----

blacklightmike
22nd August 2007, 13:35
Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to pass along this to my friend, who recently regaled me with stories of training under Yagyu Koichi sensei while he was at Ken Zen dojo. Great article.

ouch!
28th August 2007, 10:15
Thanks for your effort. Very informative. This year has marked the death of both Yagyu Nobuharu (Shinkage-ryu) and Hoshi Kunio (Shingan-ryu).

Josh Reyer
28th August 2007, 14:10
He continued his personal right up until just before his death at age 88, and in the end Koichi could not surpass him.


I can't edit the original post anymore, but this should be He continued his personal research right up until his death....

George Kohler
28th August 2007, 17:47
I can't edit the original post anymore, but this should be He continued his personal research right up until his death....

It has been fixed.

PiersonJ
11th May 2009, 21:56
Just to clarify this for anyone who stumbles upon this via Koryu.com's link "A note on Yagyu Jubei"

Munetoshi received licensing from Kamiizumi Ise-no-kami Hidetsuna
Munenori was the fifth son of Munetoshi.

I apologize if you were quoting from the book, just clarifying.

bennosuke
6th February 2015, 17:07
I do not know if this is the appropriate place to post this question, please forgive me as I am new to the forum. I am moving to NYC and it appears there are two programs in the city associated with Yagyu Shinkage Ryu: The Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Heiho School, and the Marobashikai Shinkageryu (which I believe is still a branch of the Yagyu Shinkageryu if I am not mistaken). While I am currently trying to arrange to visit both schools during a practice and will discuss most of my questions with the faculty at that time, I would like to hear input as to what the difference between the two programs is, despite what I am assuming is politics. I will try to discuss curriculum with both schools and will also ask about what they believe the differences are. Does anyone have any experience with either, or both programs, enough to give some input?

Josh Reyer
7th February 2015, 03:22
Yagyu Shinkage-ryu at Kenzen Dojo is a branch of the Yagyukai, run under the auspices of Yagyu Koichi, 22nd soke of YSR. He comes to New York once a year to view and instruct practice.

The Marobashikai split off from the mainline in the 1970s. It is run by Watanabe Tadashige, the son of Watanabe Tadatoshi, who was a high level student of Yagyu Toshinaga, the 20th soke. I don't know

The curriculum is essentially the same, just arranged a little differently. The Marobashikai website calls the different levels of the curriculum "ranks", but we don't really have this concept in the Yagyukai. You practice until the soke decides you should learn the next kata. There are no tests, no ceremonies. You are simply shown the next kata and start to practice it.

With three generations separation there's some differences in the physical expression of the ryu.

bennosuke
7th February 2015, 14:33
Yagyu Shinkage-ryu at Kenzen Dojo is a branch of the Yagyukai, run under the auspices of Yagyu Koichi, 22nd soke of YSR. He comes to New York once a year to view and instruct practice.

The Marobashikai split off from the mainline in the 1970s. It is run by Watanabe Tadashige, the son of Watanabe Tadatoshi, who was a high level student of Yagyu Toshinaga, the 20th soke. I don't know

The curriculum is essentially the same, just arranged a little differently. The Marobashikai website calls the different levels of the curriculum "ranks", but we don't really have this concept in the Yagyukai. You practice until the soke decides you should learn the next kata. There are no tests, no ceremonies. You are simply shown the next kata and start to practice it.

With three generations separation there's some differences in the physical expression of the ryu.

Thank you Mr. Reyer, that was very informative, and exactly the kind of information I was hoping to glean. When you talk about the age difference leading to differences in the physical expression of the Ryu, I would be interested to hear what you mean.

Josh Reyer
9th February 2015, 08:01
The Marobashikai split off from the mainline in the 1970s. It is run by Watanabe Tadashige, the son of Watanabe Tadatoshi, who was a high level student of Yagyu Toshinaga, the 20th soke. I don't know
Whoops. Got cut off there. This should read, "I don't know to what degree he travels to the U.S. for instruction."


Thank you Mr. Reyer, that was very informative, and exactly the kind of information I was hoping to glean. When you talk about the age difference leading to differences in the physical expression of the Ryu, I would be interested to hear what you mean.
Well, it's difficult to explain and I don't know if it's obvious for a non-practitioner just watching videos. Also, there's not much Marobashikai video out there, making it hard to compare like with like.

Here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLvlSjbq8hk) a demonstration by the New York Marobashi-kai.

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36dbxHMMd58) is a demonstration by the Yagyukai in the time of the previous soke. The first kata shown here is the same as the last kata shown in the above clip.


Here's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDWKrUqaQJ8) a clip of the current soke and students.

See what you can make of it!

bennosuke
9th February 2015, 15:49
They do look very different, especially in how they apply Seme at the end. I'm not really sure I have the incite to take much from the differences though. You are right about the Rank thing, and it looks like it can get to be very expensive moving up the Ranks in the Marobashi.

I contacted the NYC Yagyukai via the email listed by their website (info@yagyukai.us) but never heard back from them. Does anyone know if the Dojo is still running and if there is a better way to get in contact with them?

Josh Reyer
10th February 2015, 02:40
I contacted the NYC Yagyukai via the email listed by their website (info@yagyukai.us) but never heard back from them. Does anyone know if the Dojo is still running and if there is a better way to get in contact with them?
It's definitely running. The guy handling the address has been a bit busy lately, though. I'll check with some folks from my end, and see if we can't get you a reply.

bennosuke
10th February 2015, 03:32
It's definitely running. The guy handling the address has been a bit busy lately, though. I'll check with some folks from my end, and see if we can't get you a reply.

Thank you. I really appreciate it.