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Anhur
6th September 2000, 03:58
Hiyas!

Having just marvelled over Hatsumi Sensei's happo bikenjutsu daikomyosai tapes (gods I want to get over there for training...), I noticed lots of the participants were beating on each other with padded shinai. They seemed to be wrapped in some type of thick foam or something as people were wailing on each other without slowing much.

I was just wondering if anyone knew where to obtain such tools or how to make one. A few of us at the dojo would like to try some of the sword work in a little more realistic fashion, but don't want to risk severe injury with bokken or exposed bamboo so any suggestions greatly appreciated!

Shinobi
6th September 2000, 05:55
Their called "Fukuro Shinai". The Fukuro means "bag". This is a leather/suede bag slipped over the bamboo.

You can get the really good Yagyű Shinkage-ryű one from Kiyota company in Baltimore. Much cheaper is the Bujin Design one http://www.bujindesign.com/ You have to slip off the suede bag on theirs and split the bamboo more to make it softer, as its Indian bamboo and not Japanese. You can injure your uke easier Mr. Kiyota told me with the Bujin Design one and badly bruise them if you hit them hard enough :nono: He also said break bones, but I don't know about that.

So I got the Yagyű one for the kids class, didn't wanna hurt the little buggers :D I forget how much these are though. Bujin should be around $70, Yagyű is like 3 times as much.

They have them in Japan too, but I don't know the suppliers for that.

Hope this helps,
train safe!

[Edited by Shinobi on 09-05-2000 at 11:58 PM]

Todd Schweinhart
13th September 2000, 20:03
Hey guys,
You may also try to use some PVC (a rigid plastic pipe for plumbing) with some pipe insulation (foam pipe covers) finally covered with some duct tape. Depending on the size of pvc used you can add to the "impact" of the strikes. These pvc swords can be also be used as Rokushaku bo, hanbo, etc. and are very cheap to construct. They do on occasion break and should be discarded or repaired immediately due to the sharp pieces of plastic. Good luck in your search!
Best,
Todd Schweinhart

John A Butz
13th September 2000, 20:55
The PVC pipe and foam weapons are really good for training. We have made several fukuro shinai, and have even made a "fukuro naginata" that is tons of fun.

One thing I have noticed is that when free sparing with these bad boys, the fingers get struck fairly often. After a good long session, you will have some really sore hands. We have expiremented with plastic tsuba, with some moderate sucsess.

arcane
14th September 2000, 18:31
I have the Bujin kind. Have been hit with it plenty of times, it isn't too bad. The hands are a problem however, I wear gloves.
--
Marcus Abrahams

Shinobi
15th September 2000, 09:07
Originally posted by arcane
I have the Bujin kind. Have been hit with it plenty of times, it isn't too bad. The hands are a problem however, I wear gloves.
--
Marcus Abrahams

Yeah, I would recommened the Bujin Design one to everyone as its good quality and much cheaper then the Yagyű Shinkage-ryű one. If it hurts, just open the sucker up and split the bamboo more, and alternate the splits lengths to keep its stregth!

Kolschey
15th September 2000, 12:53
The Bujin Shinai are a good value. In the dojo I've trained at for the past few years ( Aikido of Madison ) We sometimes would practice randori with several partners with these shinai. Great way to get a real appreciation of the difficulty of dealing with single or mutiple, potentially armed attackers! The nice thing about the shinai is that attacks tend to lose some of the stiffness or inhibition that can come from working with/against a wooden weapon.

Evan London
15th September 2000, 13:29
I've made my own using the shiani some of my dojo mates bought form someone form Japan. Making it wasn't too difficult and it maks a great training weapon.
Just find some sutible sized bamboo, cut it down, allow it to dry for a month or so. If it is still wet when you put it together the handle wrapping becomes loose. Once dry, slice the bamboo into 8ths for about 3/4ths of it's length. For a sheath, make up some diagrams and have a local taylor sew cut it and sew it up for you (I use a flat piece of thick full-grain leather about 5 inches wide by 2-2 and a half inches long, folded and sewn up the side and top. I face the smooth side of the leather out so that you don't get leather burn when the shinai is drawn across bare skin). Once the two parts are finished, take a lather punch, poke some4-6 holes around the edge of the open end of the leather. For tuska wraping I put a hole in the very bottom of the bamboo at an steep angle that comes out the side of the wood, not too far from the end of the wood. (I try to make the tsuka end of the bamboo a segment joint in the wood and make the hole in the side of the joint for strength). Using a button with a hole poked in the middle, I then take some nylon ito, paracord or some other suitable material from the local crafts or fabric store and tie one end and pass the length of the wrap through the button and trough the hole. That secures one side of the wrap. Proceede to tightly coil the ito for the legnth of the tsuka. When you reach the top of the tsuka tie a self-tightening knot in the ito. Prior to putting on the leather sheath, I always pad it with some bubble wrap or cotton rags to cushion the end in case tou tsuki your partner too hard. :-) Once that is done, slide the sheath over the bamboo and then pass the free end of the ito through the holes in the leather in a weaving manner and tie again with a self tightening knot. Either cut off the excess ito or tuck it into the leather sheath.
This method saves some serious bucks. As the bamboo ages it will probably crack, as has happened with several Buki co. shinai I have had. When this happens, all you have to do is get another piece of bamboo, disassemble the sinai and put it back together with the new bamboo. When the ito loosens you can just tighten it yourself too.
I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. You save lots of money this way, have a shinai you can repair yourself and can customize the leather and ito to suit your tastes. Who could ask for anything more?
Ev

George Russell
15th September 2000, 13:39
I have a friend in the Martial Arts supply buissness who is going to production with Fukuro Shinai, he should have them ready in a month or so. He also has short and tall tabi with the leggings to go with them. Contact Thom at shocker@netscape.net

Anhur
15th September 2000, 14:06
Pain is acceptable; injury is not!

I really should get over to Kiyota. I've lived in Baltimore for 10 years and have yet to visit the man! :)

Evan London
15th September 2000, 16:56
Hey Steve,
Who do you train with?
Ev

Anhur
17th September 2000, 16:08
Originally posted by Evan London
Hey Steve,
Who do you train with?
Ev


Good question! I'm training at Will Maier's dojo in Columbia, MD right now mainly under the tutelage of Justin LaClere, Victor Hare, and Leonard Pollard. Why do you ask? Did you actually see my taijutsu and want to know why I look so bad? ;)

Evan London
18th September 2000, 12:14
Hey Steve,
Actually I've never seen your movement. I live in Olney (Montgomery Co.) and train with Scott Teague, and when I get the prividege, Shawn Havens (who now lives and trains in Baltimore). Just curious to see who's in the neighborhood.
Ev

22nd September 2000, 20:52
Padded Shinai & Hanbo*
Tim Bathurst (Judan, Australia) is here in Japan and makes beautiful shinai and hanbo for training, they're the best I've ever seen, better than the bujin, as they are suede the full length, not just a sleeve tied at one end. Lots of people over here are using them, and no complaints. I might buy some myself, just need to figure out where I'm gonna stash them in my luggage when I come back....
He's making a poopload for TaiKai, so if you know someone coming over here, take my word for it, and ask them to bring some back for you, they're buttah....