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Darren Laur
13th March 2003, 07:02
Sensory Deprivation Training:

To often when we train for the real world, we train under perfect condition of the dojo or training hall. IMO we are doing our students a disservice!!!!!!! Here at the school, we are continually pushing students not only in realistic scenario based training, but also in sensory deprivation training. Here’s an example of what we did tonight:

· Replicated fighting with a broken or dislocated arm, by tying one behind the back and then having them engage in combative drills
· Replicated fighting with blurred vision (as a result of being hit in the eyes or being sprayed with pepper spray) by Vaselineing a pair of clear glasses and wearing them during combative drills
· Replicated taking away depth perception (as a result of being hit in the eye or being sprayed with pepper spray) by covering the left or right lens of the above noted glasses with paper, and again fighting with them on
· Replicated fighting in a bar environment where sight and sound are limited by blacking out the school, turned on a strobe light, multi colored disco ball, and smoke machine (all of which I have built into the training studio) and cranked the music to full so that you could not even hear yourself speak.


Why is this so important????? Condition the brain to continue on with goal in these types of environments should one’s senses be deprived for whatever reason. Train how you fight, fight how you train.


I’m looking for any other ideas that readers may have


Strength and Honor

Darren Laur

tmanifold
13th March 2003, 07:09
I watched a show on the RCMP training at Depot and one drill they did was to spray pepper spray in the eyes of the training and they had to run up and attack a guy with a kicking sheild and then disengage and call for backup. That would be a good thing but it would have to be very controlled with an eye wash station set up and first aid available. It would teach overcoming the pain and loss of vision and fighting anyway.

Another one to teach willpower is to make the person do 10 straight mins (ideally you could start at 5 and work up) of sparring, be it grappling or kickboxing or what ever. Keep the partners fresh so they have to fighting hard and have the partners truly press them. The Idea is to teach them to keep fighting and not to give up. That being tired does not mean you lose.

Anything that teachs will over skill and the "drive on " mentality is good.

Zatoichi_1800
13th March 2003, 23:12
Multi-partner sparring is great. I did that in my Muay Thai class. We had 2 rows of fighters facing each other. Then we fight for one round then everyone steps to the right giving you a new opponet. We kept that up until everyone had fought everyone in the class. Total chaos there. Imagine 20 - 30 guys fighting around you. Totally gets you pumped that you don't feel tired but the need for blood.

kaishaku
13th March 2003, 23:36
Early in my law enforcement career I was violently assaulted by two suspects armed with knives. During the assault I suffered a broken tibia. It's amazing how little mobiltiy one has when they lose the use of a weight bearing bone.

A couple of years later, I was transferred to the police college to teach self defence. Remembering my rather painful experience, my self and other instructors would practice by placing a large marble in our sock at the sole of the foot. We then would practice. Everytime we would try to get a solid (ie., biped) foundation the marble provided some sudden uncomfortable feedback.


Regards

Frederick D. Smith

Mike Williams
14th March 2003, 10:38
Originally posted by Darren Laur
· Replicated fighting with a broken or dislocated arm, by tying one behind the back and then having them engage in combative drills


One-handed throws are in the sylabus of the JJ style I study (bizarrely, they are taught before left-handed throws). Kuzushi is difficult to get, and relies on fairly powerful distracting strikes - but once you get it, the throws are actually harder/faster than their two-handed equivalents. Go figure.

I would agree with the value of sparring beyond the point of exhaustion - if nothing else, it teaches you the importance of keeping things simple.

I once heard someone suggest training after having a few beers - not sure I'd want to do that, but I can see the rationale behind it.

Cheers,

Mike

jellyman
14th March 2003, 12:23
From time to time we do a blindfold drill, wherein one person is blindfolded, and everyone else takes turns putting on a hold (lock, choke, takedown, etc.) The blinfolded person must escape and/or counter. What's interesting to me is that the skill level of the blindfolded person often improves dramatically during the drill. I chalk it up to more cerebral resources being devoted to the tactile senses, which perhaps would be normally drowned out by visual stimuli. It is a useful drill to teach people to rely on feel rather than vision exclusively.

DaveB
14th March 2003, 14:07
I'd like to thank everyone for some excellent ideas. Here's s few that Pete has taught us over the years:

Walking between cars. This limits your mobility, especially in a crowded parking lot. Attacks would be a grab as you were trying to put your keys in the car door; two attackers pushing, punching; knife attacks; club; gun. These were realistic techniques that "would give us a chance." He also taught us what to do if we were lucky enough end up with the weapon in hand or stopped the attack/assault. One such example was what to do if you manage to take his gun away. You would direct him ever so gently(not)to either get on his stomache with half his body under the car (tough to get up when you're in that position) or put have him put his hands through a semi open car window and roll the window as far up as it will go or open the car door, have him put his arms in the opening, then lean on it so he can't move.

Dave Boylan

Sochin
14th March 2003, 15:30
I once heard someone suggest training after having a few beers - not sure I'd want to do that, but I can see the rationale behind it. Cheers,

Mike

That was me and I suggested IF you fight when drinking, you should train after drinking...

Personally I gave it up a long time ago.

I like the other ideas a lot too. Now we just need a Kato to jump on us when we least expect it!

Darren Laur
14th March 2003, 18:57
Excellent Suggestions:


Here are some other drills that we use here at the school:


Replicate Slippery Surfaces:

Cover the training room floor with plastic garbage bags and then rap student’s shoes with large plastic sandwich bags, instant slippery surface


Replicate Injured Leg:

Place a large and very jagged rock into the student’s shoe thus making weight placement on that foot extremely difficult


Replicate Loss Vision:

Blindfold two students, place them in opposite corners of the training studio, and have them locate one another at which time they fight. This works on a student’s sense of hearing and tactile sensitivity. You can also combine this with both the Slippery Surface and Injured Leg drill


Replicated Loss Of Tactile Sensitivity of the Hands:

Wear a large and bulky pair of gloves which also limits the ability to grab



I am now also experimenting with a Dr. Ho’s Muscle therapy machine. This small instrument can be connected to a students waist and the electrical connections can be placed anywhere on the body. When activated, the Dr Ho electrically stimulates a muscle to a variety of different degrees thus, it can safely replicate a Charlie horse. The cool thing about it, is that has a timer that can be set to activate at a variety of different intervals. During scenario based training exercises then, I can safely replicate an injury to a specific limb that a student has to be able to work around. This one came to me while I was using my Dr Ho as therapy on my shoulder. Stay tuned !!!!!!!!!


Strength and Honor

Darren Laur

Lee Mc'pherson
25th March 2003, 03:36
Sparring one against 2-4 opponents with the objective being to get to a certain point were you would be "safe" (rarely do i see someone take everyone out)

And sparring while wering jeans and other normal everyday clothes wich are not as mobile allowing as tracksuits and gi's

Arthur
25th March 2003, 16:40
At my school we regularly do a fair amount of those. We also work in handcuffs a lot, after inducing dizzyness (spin around), in the snow, in deep soft sand on the beach, and even in the water occasionally.

I really like the rock/marble in the shoe guys! That's an awesome idea. Thanks.

Arthur

tonylfi4
26th March 2003, 00:06
the major criticism I've gotten since i returned from Ken Good's 5 day PCR in WI - where I also had the distinct pleasure and welcomed opportunity to train with Arthur - has to do with the speed and violence of offered attacks.

So, my question is, how do you all build in requisite amounts of "evil intent" and "hostile purpose" in your training?

tony

Arthur
27th March 2003, 11:48
Let me answer that question by posing a few others?

When someone wants to to learn to ply the guitar... when should they learn to improvise... and when should they get up on a stage in front of 150 or more people and improv spontaneous jazz solos based of the spontaneous music currently being played by four other musicians?

It seems to me that if we discuss ANYTHING besides martial skills, there are some rules of learning that everyone is willing to basically except as obvious and true. Yet as soon as we steer into this one particular subject ego gets in the way, and 99% of people suddenly expect all the rules of behavior and learning to change.

If someone comes to me and asks for swimming lessons because they can't swim, the whole world would recognize it as ridiculous if I were to take them 30 miles out into the North Atlantic in a hurricane and drop them in the water for their first lesson.

They don't physically know what swimming even is yet... and asking them to perform it at a world class level in a competitive environment from the begining would clearly be ludirous.

However, when it comes to martial skill, people want to go full speed against full resistence, before they've physically (and often intellectually) understood the basic operating system of the method. This is just as ludicrous.

Therefore, when one hears such "criticisms", I think a direct response is sort of moot, as such criticisms are generally based on false assumptions i.e. I should be able to use this stuff before I know it.

The real answer to such inquiries, and I think thats really what they are, is to educate the asker about the nature of learning. Ask them questions about things they have learned already. Ask them how long it took and how long it was before they were ready to use that skill in "spontaneous competition". Students need to have their frame of reference changed to something with in the bounds of reality, otherwise as trainers... we have a tendency to try and make the material fit the students unrealistic frame... and that leads to training that benefits no one, while ultimately undermining the art itself.


that said.... So, my question is, how do you all build in requisite amounts of "evil intent" and "hostile purpose" in your training?

Those things should exist from the beginning, but in a controled way. In fact with out true hostile purpose in an attacking partner... the training is sort of a waste of time. When training partners attack, they should always have a clear purpose and intent, and that intent should manifest in their movements, but only at a rate and strength equal to the level of the practice drill being done.

One of the most difficult things to deal with in PCR (or any of the arts its related to) is a training partner who gives no intent. Its impossible for me to practice "retaining" my weapon... if no one is actually trying to take it away.

Unfortunately what we see in training is a misunderstanding in individuals between "intent" and strength/speed. There are those individuals who think that by applying more stregth they are showing intent... and perhaps they are... but not intent related to their role in the drill. the intent they are showing is to be strong and "not let you do anything" However in reality, if someone is trying to take my gun... well, he's trying to take my gun. He isn't trying to stand there with his hands on it and not let me move. Yet that is exactly what many partners will do... all the while thinking they are being helpful by "showing you what it'd really be like".

Of course that's not what it'd really be like, and if that's what you get use to you'll be in a lot of trouble in real life when someone actually tries to take your gun away... rather than just "holding it still strongly".

So I think those qualities should be present from the beginning, but the students must be properlyu educated as to what they actually are, and also made to understand the nature of a reasonable learning process.

On the other hand.. there arelso many trining games that are useful tricking people into training properly;-)

Arthur

Mike Williams
27th March 2003, 12:18
Excellent post, Arthur - thankyou!

Cheers,

Mike

kaishaku
27th March 2003, 20:09
Mr. Sennott makes an excellent point with respect to intent versus speed and strength.

Although somewhat off-topic to this thread, intent or "I" is critical with teaching and learning the martial arts. The kanji for "I" provides a salient explanation for intent. "I" comprises a lower radical for mind (shin) and the character for sound - hence meaning a resonance of the mind or absolute commitment, being resolute, the intent IMHO. Nothing to do with speed or strength.

Training with intent ("I") makes for sound realistic learning, no matter the relative expertise of the student.

Best Regards

Frederick D. Smith

tonylfi4
28th March 2003, 02:41
Gentleman,

thank yor for such clarity!!! If I get what you're saying, when my training partner and I begin to work with each other next week, and I throw a punch at him, I must really intend to hit him, even though the speed of delivery of that punch might not be "high."

Also, Arthur, your analogy to jazz improvisation is brilliant!!! and you're correct in my view, that it is "ego" that gets in the way!! I recall when I was learning how to do the Lindell/Ayoob weapon retention protocol and, when one of my classmates "went full speed" on me, I predictably "went full speed" on him.

Scarily, however, since we participants had not been "weapon sanitized," when he and I went to the ground, both of us resisting maximally, I recall reversing to his back side, withdrawing my folder from my pocket, and then being restrained by the instructor as I deployed the blade. NOT GOOD!!

I know now "not to be selfish."

thanks again, guys, for helping out a neophyte.

tony

Arthur
28th March 2003, 21:18
Scarily, however, since we participants had not been "weapon sanitized," when he and I went to the ground, both of us resisting maximally, I recall reversing to his back side, withdrawing my folder from my pocket, and then being restrained by the instructor as I deployed the blade. NOT GOOD!!


And you wonder why we call you the "Wolverine!:D

Arthur

shotofan
29th March 2003, 22:36
I like the idea of fighting multi oppents who are fresh and you are tried... It is realistc.. Most fights you get in to you are out numbered... And normally they have back- up...:idea: