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hector gomez
13th March 2003, 14:26
Let's pretend for instance that you are shown a better method of training that yields better results(I know that's impossible for some to believe)but remember were are only pretending here,so you don't have to take offense to this question.

Now pretend you are shown a better formula or way of doing things that go contrary to what the real essence of karate stands for.

A)Would you add this training method to your routine and maybe abandon the old one?


OR


B)Definitely not because it goes against the true essence of karate.



That my friends is the million dollar question.



Hector Gomez

Sochin
13th March 2003, 15:10
I thought this deserves its own soapbox. (Also, I never split a thread before and wanted to try it! :) )

Guys,
keep your answers about training efficacy and don't attack people or styles and this will be good!

CEB
13th March 2003, 23:18
I think this one probably belongs over here. CEB


Originally posted by Kimura
Ed,

About being open minded,Does this include changing any portion of your training if it is proven or demonstrated to be more effective?

Even if it means stearing away from what most consider to be pure karate?

Hector Gomez

Sorry I missed this one yesterday when I went on my e-budo marathon.

I'm trying to think if I have gone and changed portions of my Goju Ryu Training. I've done a lot of supplemental things. I am currently gathering knowledge and practicing leg lock techniques. I've added 4 techniques to my bag of tricks. This is a personal endeavor and no attempt to change any syllabus. I happen to really like pickups. I love Marote Gari and Sucui Nage. Since after completing such a throw you have a hold of a couple legs I thought I might as well learn to put them to good use. I've added different supplemental bag training exercises to my personal workout because you and Antonio gave me guidence on other ways to use the device other than just standing there and beating the hell out of the thing.

I have the advantage of not being a teacher per se, so I can go and basically do what I want. I teach when asked to as one of the dojo's more senior yudansha but I don't have to adhere to some set syllabus. I have made wholesale changes to the way I do a roundhouse kick because if think it is better but then again there are arguements of whether or not Round kick is even part of Goju Ryu proper. I teach a lot of Judo at our karate dojo so I don't know if that counts as steering away from pure karate. But my first and long time teacher is a student of Chinen Sensei who was a student of Miyazato Sensei. Both of those men were very fine Judo-ka. I don't know what pure karate is but I can't imagine anybody every have the gonads to tell Miyazato that his karate wasn't pure. Show me a Jundokan, a Shodokan, a Meibukan version of kata Seiunchin and I will be looking at 3 somewhat different forms. Which one is pure Goju? I would hope all of them.

If you are asking me if I would ditch the entire system if I found a 'better' way. At this point probably not, Goju is good enough for my needs and I have two decades of history with our dojo. We are like a form of extended family. If I were to move to a new city and was looking for a place to train then I would find the best teacher.

You ask very hard questions.

Goju Man
15th March 2003, 15:49
Ed, that was very well put. Can you imagine someone telling Myagi Sensei or Higashionna Sensei that what they were practising was not pure or was some "newfangled" mma or something like that? Yet that's what many say about today's pioneers. If what you do is good enough for you, and you are happy with what you do, more power to you brother! That's probably the bottom line. So when other martial artists start this my style is better than yours or Japanese Karate isn't real or it's just a copy, or that the Japanese have no clue of Karate, then they are just being blindly bias and have probably never had a real confrontation.

Myself, I love traditional Karate, although many would say we were not "traditional", am always in search of the truth in combat. Anything that is SHOWN to be effective, and I'm physically capable of pulling it off is getting added to my arsenal, wether it's karate, bjj, or combat tai chi.:p (little joke there) I train bjj and submission wrestling, kickboxing and mma. As we say, it's all good.;)

Gene Williams
15th March 2003, 16:13
I agree with Ed. I supplement my Shito-ryu training with jogging, bicycling, Hakko-ryu, and Ryukyu Kobudo, but I never consider myself changing anything essential to Shito-ryu. I have learned techniques from people in Gracie jujutsu, judo, and aikido, but I do not claim to know those arts, nor do I feel compelled to mix them into my Shito-ryu kata (except as bunkai) or start my own style and call it "Hunky Dunky-ryu." After 33 years in Shito-ryu, I ain't changin' nuttin'. But, I'll add all kinds of stuff as supplemental knowledge, everyone should. Gene

Bustillo, A.
15th March 2003, 17:15
Originally posted by hector gomez

Now pretend you are shown a better formula or way of doing things that go contrary to what the real essence of karate stands for.
A)Would you add this training method to your routine and maybe abandon the old one?
OR
B)Definitely not because it goes against the true essence of karate.
Hector Gomez


My answer to question 'A'.

Yes. After testing the 'new method', and if it proved to be more efficient, I'd switch, or adopt it.

Budoka 34
15th March 2003, 19:10
I once wrote a letter to Black Belt magazine to comment on the question of why we continue to train.
The author (I can't remember who) insinuated we train only because we like to fight.
My belief in why we train has only been reinforced in the three years since I wrote that letter.

For myself it's about becoming something more, as a warrior, as a father, as a person.
I train in one style and learn everything I can about it, but I don't stop there.
I look at how it relates to other styles, arts, or disiplines.

My teacher is fond of saying, "It is all related", and my experience has shown, at least for me, that is true.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I would definitely examine it and learn all it has to offer and add it to my own, but I would not change the foundation that lead me to it.

:smilejapa