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David Dunn
14th March 2003, 02:32
Tony - I've been following the reiki threads with a mixture of amusement and horror. I'm reminded of a time that I got into a protracted argument with a crackpot in WC1. I was desperate to convince that person that they were wrong. Eventually my friend dragged me away and his words are still clear "I'm sorry mate, our trains are on different tracks. Good luck".

Reiki is clearly a bag of bollocks, along with a myriad of other witch doctory and fraud. But you cannot ask for rational justifications of irrationality. The trains are on different tracks.

You are asking them to submit to the methods of scientific rigour, but why would they when it would reveal them to be fiddlers?

Fortunately it seems that it is mainly young people, with a surfeit of cash and whose main problem is being a bit unhappy, who get sucked in by the quackery. Hopefully when people really need it they will still seek medicine with some kind of rational basis. Who was the last reikisha
who successfully replaced a hip, or made a triple bypass?

In the meantime there are far better methods for dealing with unhappiness.

Striking Hand
14th March 2003, 02:41
I think a pm would have been better and more suited than starting a thread.

Cheers.

Rogier
14th March 2003, 07:27
You ain't telling Tony anything he doesn't know already... He just loves those endless discussions in which nobody wins...

Just check the threads he posts in a lot... if there religion... Tony's there.. Reiki.... you'll find Tony

aliens..... Tony

Everyone in here understands that Tony has a boring job and does anything to let the time go by a little faster :D :D

MarkF
14th March 2003, 07:38
...Who was the last reikisha
who successfully replaced a hip, or made a triple bypass?



Uhhh, Kenny Stabler?

They also call them quarterbacks.:cool:


Mark

David Dunn
14th March 2003, 09:50
I think a pm would have been better and more suited than starting a thread.

Peter, you're probably right. I was wondering whether to get involved in the discussion myself.

Mark, I'm afraid I don't know who Kenny Stabler is. Over here football is game played with the feet :D

Kimpatsu
17th March 2003, 02:57
Originally posted by David Dunn
Over here football is game played with the feet :D
Ain't that a kick in the head? :D

Emily
17th March 2003, 20:35
Originally posted by David Dunn
Tony - I've been following the reiki threads with a mixture of amusement and horror. I'm reminded of a time that I got into a protracted argument with a crackpot in WC1. I was desperate to convince that person that they were wrong. Eventually my friend dragged me away and his words are still clear "I'm sorry mate, our trains are on different tracks. Good luck".

Gotta agree there.
Here's the deal.
I am an old-fashioned bodyworker.
I wear out thumbs, elbows, and the rest of me fixing bodies.

There are Reiki people who charge WAY more than I do, and sweat way less. We can compare results on a chart, and I will get high marks in pain relief and improved function, and I'm not sure what the Reiki folks will get.

I'm not going to tell anyone outright that Reiki is a crock, however, I can connect them with proper scientific information SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO LOOK.
Those who don't want to look, I don't have time for.

Speaking of which.. Tony, did you go to the Quackwatch site?
You'd probably enjoy it.
;)



Reiki is clearly a bag of bollocks, along with a myriad of other witch doctory and fraud. But you cannot ask for rational justifications of irrationality. The trains are on different tracks.
You are asking them to submit to the methods of scientific rigour, but why would they when it would reveal them to be fiddlers?


People want to believe.
Some people don't know how to THINK and believe at the same time.

The trains really and truly aren't on the same tracks at all, and adversarial approaches won't get them there. It's an old battle in the bodywork field.

Anyway ya'll ain't going to agree, so have fun.

MLE

UKPatrick
18th March 2003, 00:56
Hi folks,

just passing through, and find I like the analagy with trains, and different tracks. I just visualise some of the anti Reiki commentators on a train, restricted by the rails that bind them from seeing what is just over the horizon, all sing 'City of New Orleans'. You do all know that song about the dissapearing railway blues?

Patrick

Kimpatsu
18th March 2003, 01:26
Originally posted by UKPatrick
just passing through, and find I like the analagy with trains, and different tracks. I just visualise some of the anti Reiki commentators on a train, restricted by the rails that bind them from seeing what is just over the horizon, all sing 'City of New Orleans'. You do all know that song about the dissapearing railway blues?
The trouble with this analogy is that it assumes that Reiki works, when it clearly doesn't. When are any of you going to agree to be tested, (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html) to prove you can do what you claim?

JimGould
18th March 2003, 06:43
See Tony is making stuff up again.


it assumes that Reiki works, when it clearly doesn't.

Show me the officla studies that say Reiki dosnt work...hmmm hold on thats just antidotes.. Tony you prove to me Reiki dosnt work.. ....Take the test Tony

Kimpatsu
18th March 2003, 07:17
Here's a prediction from a Reiki "master" intended for 1999:

Our planet is governed by a confederation of about 26 alien civilizations, all far more advanced than us. They have bases on earth [sic] and on Ganymede (which they call "Morlen") and other places, but they are so good at stealth technology that we never see them. Up to now, this confederation has protected us against natural and manmade disasters as well as "bad" aliens (the bad ones look like little green men with big eyes, the good ones look like humans).
And you claim that Reiki isn't woo-woo? We haven't been taken over yet.
BTW, Gouldilocks, what test are you talking about? Remember, I don't have to prove anything. You're the one making the claims, you prove them. Basic rule of science.

Striking Hand
18th March 2003, 07:23
Guys.

Tony doesn't really care about reiki or if god exist.

He is on a different mission, he wants to become the top poster on this Board.

At the moment he is still ranked 2nd after MarkF.
You are just giving him excuses to up his post count.

:D :D

Tony still nearly 500 posts to go.

JimGould
18th March 2003, 07:23
not worth it

Kimpatsu
18th March 2003, 07:30
Originally posted by JimGould
Why do you insist on being rude to me? because you live overseas and feel safe? You know you wouldnt say it to my face...
Yes I bloody well would.

Originally posted by JimGould
And why oh why oh why to you think Reiki has ANYTHINK to do with aliens you moron?
That was a quotation from a Reiki master. Or do you disagree among yourselves?

Originally posted by JimGould
You are the biggest twat I have even known ... IDIOT FWHIT AHOLE
Excluding your own Reiki woo-woo friends.

Originally posted by JimGould

Reiki has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING except healing... UNDERSTAND?
Which it cannot do. Your claims are scientifically impossible (leaving aside the aliens). The human body does NOT possess an "energy field". You cannot cure disease by waving your hands about. But please feel free to prove me wrong. (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)

Originally posted by JimGould
Come wipe the floor with me Tony, PLEASE come .. PLEASE
If I'm ever in New Zealand, I promise to. Unless you're coming to Japan first?

JimGould
18th March 2003, 07:33
Tony, please fwd your address and contact details so that if I am I can come and see you... You just never know your luck

Kimpatsu
18th March 2003, 07:54
E-mail me when you're coming. I might even be able to meet you at the airport. Hey, why don't you win the $1 million, (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html) and then you can take a round-the-world trip?

Exorcist_Fist
18th March 2003, 10:09
You can find us at the shamrock in shinjuku. Just go out the east exist, its about 100 yards. We are there on random sundays.

This is not necessarily me saying I endorse Tony's views. In fact, I don't agree with a lot of what Tony says. He and I just don't argue about it though.

Unless there is beer to be had, and then only because its an excuse to work up a thirst.

bruceb
18th March 2003, 13:04
Common sense should tell each person that the proper outlook of one's health is just as important as having the proper treatment. Not discounting the effectiveness of either western medicine, or the many types of eastern medicine, the human beings state of mind and outlook has a lot to do on the recovery rate from illness, or injury.

Maybe there are not enough studies to document the percentage of positive results from reiki, but then again, the percentage of lawsuits from deaths or injurys from western medicine is aweful high also.

Maybe holistic medicine is not a scientifically valid as western medicine, but even western medicine is judged within percentage results allowing for reactions outside the normal parameters of recovery. This certainly gives credence to the use of such techniques ... unless you fall into that percentage that fall ill, are injured, or can die from said treatment?

Instead of giving in to the Kimpatsu dialogue of rhetoric, simply yes him to death until he leaves, then discuss the parameters of whatever subject he interrupts without the court jester pulling pranks that only he laughs at.

This Kimpatsu, is just too weird.

Rogier
18th March 2003, 13:12
but even western medicine is judged within percentage results allowing for reactions outside the normal parameters of recovery.

This is quite a simple statement which has some truth in it. But you forget to mention that for western medicin extensive testing is done (now I'm talking about medicines..) before human patients are exposed to the medicines.

with many of the holistic, homeopathic and other mumbo jumbo no or not nearly enough testing is done to see what the results might be or will be before human patients are exposed.

MarkF
18th March 2003, 13:42
This thread has clearly turned to a personal attack thread by two people. Thinly veiled profanity is still profanity. If it is used only as an ad hominum attack on one person, it is no no longer germain to the discussion and in fact, the discussion has gone off the track

This thead is going to PM or email, the decision is yours but it will not continue here.

Children. Look away for a day and they just can't stop themselves.

Mark