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Goju Man
17th March 2003, 00:46
My friends, this is a question I've not come across in my time here. What in your opinion constitutes bad budo.

Steven Malanosk
17th March 2003, 02:18
Hi Manny,

You know damn well what it is!:p

But I'll bite................

BB is:

Pawning yourself off as something you are not.

Claiming false lineage for whatever it is you teach, practice or try to sell to someone.

Any kind of prostitution of the arts.

Mistreating students for no good reason.

Usurping the arts for personal gain, in liu of contributing to society.

Too much vanity.

Egocentric behavior, both practiced and taught.

Lying to yourself.

Being anything but a positive roll model for those who loyally look to you as their central point of reference. This, with the understanding that it is also a positive, when those who follow you, can learn from your mistakes.

Goju Man
17th March 2003, 12:31
I was holding back on my answer until I got a response or two. I agree with all your points. Anyone in it for personal gain, and claiming to be what you are not. The martial arts are full of people like that these days. I may opt for newer, state of the art if you will techniques and strategies, but that is one thing the traditional arts have that is great. The thing is, that frauds are usually identified, especially in these days of computers and the net.

But why would someone claim something that he is not? Well for money first and foremost of course, but what are other determining factors? Acceptance by a group? What are other reasons for passing yourself off as something you are not besides money?

Martin H
17th March 2003, 13:45
Other reasons are power and respect. Real or imagined.

gmanry
17th March 2003, 13:55
For many who do this it is an overriding need to compensate. Many of these people just don't seem to be able to make it in the everyday hustle and bustle. When they can rope off their own fantasy land and draw others into it, then they can be something they are not, or at least pretend to be. Martial arts, like religion, draws the eccentric out. Even those of us who seem to be relatively stable are seen by many to be pretty kooky. We accept pain and hardship, often paying others for the privelege. Hmmm, what does that sound like...

Another side of Bad Budo is the instructor who accepts people that he or she really shouldn't accept as students. However, this is usually a reflection of the instructor's own inadequacy as an emotionally stable human being. This is how certain schools become "thug" schools, usually the instructor is a thug. If you know your student is in a gang or running around with a brutal crowd, then that person should not be a student. Unfortunately, I have seen this all to often go "unnoticed" because the instructor gets something from the relationship. This is often found in highly competitive schools where ego is allowed to develop unchecked in young men.

I think this latter example is equally Bad Budo.

Steven Malanosk
17th March 2003, 14:13
People who claim to be something that they are not, posses either an inaccurate superiority complex or an inaccurate inferiority complex.

That is to say, that they either are laboring under the misconception of high hopes, or lack the confidence of a positive self image and don't understand the power of positive thinking.

They prefer to live in a Quixotic world.

Hey, too bad they don't have Jared on the pretender, doing a martial artist on one of the episodes.:idea:

Don Cunningham
17th March 2003, 21:16
I believe bad budo is engaging in any martial arts activity that intentionally hurts others, either physically, emotionally, or financially.

How can claiming a "false linage" be harming others? I see that as bad budo only if it is used to cheat others financially. How does someone playing out their fantasy hurt others? I see this as bad budo only when they cross the line and start seeing their role as justification for physically or emotionally harming others.

As long as it is between consenting adults, I don't see all these other aspects as "bad budo" or have problems with others doing that kind of stuff. The problem is that this type behavior is too often symptomatic of other things generally considered bad or harmful budo.

CEB
17th March 2003, 21:22
Good I am relieved by everybody's post. I was afraid Bad Budo would defined as when Ed tries to execute Hane Goshi.

Goju Man
17th March 2003, 23:56
Steve, nice logo.;)

Usually, Ed performing hane goshi isn't doing anyone any harm unless you paid to see it.:D

I have no problem with people trying to "live" out their fantasies, especially in todays world where you never know who the heck is on the other side of the keyboard, which leads me to this point: What about when these people are discovered? I've seen some real rip jobs in bad budo. Normally, it doesn't bother me either way because someone claiming this or that doesn't affect me in any way. Should these "imposters" be exposed? At what point should they be exposed?
In this day of the world wide web, anyone can claim anything they want as long as they have enough information or some terminology. But can they? Suppose I were to "claim" a goju style because Peter Urban, for example, (no disrespect to Urban sensei) Once gave a a certain rank. I would think someone like Steve would spot that in a second. How would this be dealt with? Does this still qualify as harmless because I am "living" out a dream? And does bringing the truth to light constitute bad budo?
Boy, I think I know how John must feel.:D
(in referrence to this long ash post)

Steven Malanosk
18th March 2003, 03:39
Now read into this:

Back in NYC when I was a kid, there was a mentally retarded individual, who would walk around the neighborhood dressed in fire man regalia while pushing a little grocery cart around and listening to an am transistor radio, as if it was a walky talky.

As a child, I thought to myself, "look at the geeky looking fireman." I figured that he probably worked in the office or did something there at the Fire Station. When in fact his only FD credential was the "honorary" fire chief badge that he wore. The type of thing given to kids.

As I grew older, I realized, especially after exchanging pleasantries with him occasionally, that he had the mind of a kid.

Then one day, I was walking past a building fire, in which the FD was busy at work. Low and behold! There he was, making a feeble attempt at directing traffic around the scene. Perhaps he had police ideation too.

Anyway, as soon as those who where stopping at his direction, got close enough to see him clearly, and saw his manner of operation, they either laughed, or yelled something to the effect of "hey retard, get out of the street!"

What do you do with guys like this?

Well, after a while, this individual went too far, and was caught walking out of the open garage door of the local fire station.

His mixing his fantasy with reality led to the end of his "honorary" career.

The moral of the story:

You can't snow the snowman.:look: