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J. A. Crippen
22nd March 2003, 15:02
I don't know where to post this since we have a 'Shinto' section but not a 'Buddhist' section. Sorry if this is out of place.

I'm curious about Shingon-shu mantra. I know one, perhaps one of the most important mantra in Shingon-shu. It's the "A BIRA UN KEN SO WAKA" mantra, related to the "A" syllable and Dainichi Nyorai.

I'm not exactly a lay practitioner or student of Shingon-shu and there aren't any temples anywhere near where I live (none for about 3000 miles or more), so I was wondering if anyone could point me to good reference materials regarding other Shingon-shu mantra and their 'meanings' (related deities, reasons for use, visualizations, etc).

I should note that I'm not particularly interested in mantra from other sects, excepting perhaps Tendai. None of the others are as heavy into mantra, anyway.

John Lindsey
22nd March 2003, 16:36
While I feel it is difficult to learn shingon from a book, it is good karma to read about it :).

Have you read Shingon, Japanese Esoteric Buddhism by Taiko Yamasaki? It is published by Shambhala 0-87773-443-7.

I studied Tendai-shu for a short time, and have read a lot about shingon-shu.

fifthchamber
23rd March 2003, 14:10
Hi all.
I found this site that seemed quite well organised a while back when looking for info. on Tengu....Buddhism is covered (Although in no amazing detail) quite well and the pictures are good at least!
I think that I saw some of the mantra/chants written on the site in Hiragana...But did not stop long.
Here you go..Buddhist site. (http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/buddhism.shtml)
HTH...
Regards.

fifthchamber
24th March 2003, 14:29
Hi Mr. Turner.
I meant to say Hiragana...My excuse (a worthy one imho) is that I've been up late working on my dissertation for college...I'm finding it hard to think right at the moment.
I did not however know that it must always be written in hiragana script. That IS interesting, and worthy of my error.
Yours.

J. A. Crippen
25th March 2003, 02:42
Yobina, is that list of shingon from memory, or did you get it from somewhere that you could point me to?

I had always figured that the shingon in Shingon-shu (and in Tendai-shu for that matter) were Japanese pronunciations of Sanskrit mantra but never found any validation of that made anywhere.

Thanks for all the info. I'm trying to satisfy a curiosity I have for Shingon-shu, something which is kinda difficult to do when you're at least 5000 miles from the nearest temple.

John Lindsey
25th March 2003, 03:21
James,

I once asked a Tendai priest the same question. From what I remember, he said that its the Japanese trying to pronounce how the Chinese try to pronounce the sanskrit.

As for the Fudomyo mantra, I was taught it this way:

na ma ku sa man da da sa ra nan sen da ma ka ro shya no so wa tai ya un te ra ta kam man. ( I split it up because that is how I was taught to say it.)

John Lindsey
25th March 2003, 04:11
Andrew,

I got that from an American Tendai priest who was trained in Japan. He might have been wrong.

jion
27th March 2003, 14:41
Andrew and Others (Greetings, John!)

One can appreciate your vigor in correcting the romanized spelling of Katakana script, but John has actually done an admirable job of relaying the SPECIFIC shingon he was privy to. While his romanized script may not be wholly accurate according to the Hepburn method, it is probably as he wrote it at the time. According to the Tendai School, for instance, the Fudo-o Myo-o-Oh shingon does begin as NAMAKU.

Slighting someone's "priestly training," when in fact people are speaking about someone in the third person who may not be on this board is both unprofessional and lacking in merit.

Simply jotting down mantras on this Board does little to garner true interest in Shingon or other practices. While it may satisfy the curiosity of people, might it not be more prudent to offer support to those individuals truly seeking proper counsel in the Dharma?

J. A. Crippen
28th March 2003, 00:34
One more question, this about pronunciation of these mantra in general. When speaking them are the individual morae drawn out like is often done in Japanese singing, or are the syllables pronounced instead?

That's not very clear. What I mean is basically, does something like 'man' get pronounced 'ma n' or just 'man'? Does it get two beats or one?

When speaking every Japanese person I've heard pronounces syllables, not morae. But when reading something slowly, or 'spelling' a word, or particularly when singing at a slow or moderate pace they pronounce the individual morae distinctly, not as syllable units. So I'm curious as to whether this matters in a mantra. I suspect that each mora would get a single beat, so long vowels get two beats and 'n' gets its own beat. Small kana syllables I hear undivided, so 'sha' doesn't become 'shi ya', and gets only one beat.

I wish I lived within commuting distance of a temple, but I unfortunately don't. There's a Thai Therevada monastery here in Anchorage, and a couple of westerners practicing Tibetan Buddhism of one sort or another, and there's a Zen priest in town somewhere as well, but no Tendai, Shingon, or anything similar. Not even Jodoshu or Jodoshinshu. (No Shinto jinja either, but that's less of a surprise.) Despite the fairly good sized and growing Japanese community there doesn't seem to be much growth in Japanese religion here in my town. There's a lot of cultural activities, like the yearly Bon Odori, a mochi making festival around New Year's, and a couple of groups of taiko drummers, but there doesn't seem to be enough strong belief in the community to encourage a resident Shingon or Tendai priest.

When I vacationed in Hawai`i I made sure to go temple-hopping, leaving donations at all the public temples and shrines and gathering as much literature as I could. But it's rather far to go just to ask questions...