PDA

View Full Version : ideal weight of iaito??



seskoad
30th March 2003, 20:32
Hi,
I actually new in iaido. Just asking you about the ideal weight of iaito for me. My height is 167 cm which can use either 2-3-5 or 2-4-0. My instructor suggest me to use 830 gram to be good in style first. What I am asking here what is the weigth of shinken itself? and is it really more more more heavy than iaito?If so, Should I just buy 900 gram - 1000 gram iaito so then i can get used to the weigth? Because one day of course I will be eligible to hold a shinken. Thanks

Chiburi
30th March 2003, 21:54
Do what your instructor says.

Cheers,

tddeangelo
31st March 2003, 03:34
Yes, get your instructor's input and go with that. Also try to "try out" a few iaito if possible. Hands-on experience is invaluable if it's a possibility for you. My instructor has more preference for some weight to the sword, and is not overly fond of some of the EXTREMELY light offerings that I'd tried and described to him. Likewise, he's not keen on weight for weight's sake. His statement to me was "look at the sword and decide if it will help you to make your technique better. Appearances are nice, but you need something that will help your technique improve. Anything else is unimportant." I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it. That's what I then kept in mind whenever seeing new options with swords. What I THOUGHT I wanted and what I wound up ordering turned out to be VERY different. My sword should be here in a couple of weeks, and I can't wait! :)

Short version of my ramble above: Get your instructor's advice and preferences for iaito, then go shopping with that at the forefront of your mind. It's YOUR sword and you have to pay for it and train with it, but your instructor knows what works best for those wishing to learn the art s/he's teaching.

Hope that helps!

socho
31st March 2003, 05:15
Originally posted by seskoad
...what is the weigth of shinken itself? and is it really more more more heavy than iaito? If so, Should I just buy 900 gram - 1000 gram iaito so then i can get used to the weigth?

Hello, Umar,
welcome to the world of the sword. Rule number one is to listen to your sensei, of course.
That aside, the purpose of an iaito is not to get you used to the weight of a sword, but to give you a tool that can help you learn how to use a sword. Technique first, sword is not about muscle. Thousands of (correct) repetitions of strokes and kata will build up whatever you need.
Shinken come in various weights, various styles, various lengths. Some are as light as iaito, some are considerably heavier. Weight is less important than balance.
give yourself some time before you consider a heavier iaito or a shinken. What works for you now may be something that you will outgrow as you progress or as you learn more about swords and develop your own tastes.
Whatever you decide, enjoy the journey.

Dave

primeape
31st March 2003, 08:30
Hi Umar, here my two sen worth

I am quite large for iaido, weighing 102 kilos for 184 cm frame. i started iaido some 11 years ago as a counterweight and mental alternative to a rigorous weight and running program I did to play american football, so I think I know something about both strength and iai. My first iaito was something like 2,5 shaku and 850 gram, the largest available and affordable at that time (this was pre-net and pre-Tozando :)). Of course, it felt wonderful for the first two monhts or so. However, my teacher pointed out that the tsuka was too small, my hands are also of the bigger variety, and suggested I change into a larger sword ASAP. He sold me an old, unused sword that was too heavy for him at a strongly subsidized price. It was maybe 2,55 and 950 gram. Curiously enough, the heavier sword made me strike in a more relaxed way, as the blade felt stronger. The smaller one did not feel like anything, so I used more muscle to strike wiht it.

Nowadays, several years and a couple of business trips to Japan later I use a 1,2 kg, 2,6 dotanuki, which has finally cured me from using too much muscle and letting the weight of the sword do the work. It also forces me to use my hands correctly, as the blade strikes floor the moment I forget to tighten the grip on my left. With lighter blades, I did not need to do so.

The conclusion, therefore, would be as follows: First rule, ask your sensei.
Other, less important rules: a too light sword may make you use too much muscle, since it feels too light to cause any damage. There is also the possibility of faulty technique, if the blade allows wrong movements, roughly equal to practising shot put with a Teenis ball. However, a too heavy blade causes opposite problems, your wrist may not be able to do correct nukitsuke if the blade weighs too much, especially if the sword is also long. Therefore, I would suggest you do follow your teacherīs advice, and start with a relatively light model and learn the basics before getting a heavier sword. I usually advice yopunger iaidokas to start easy, and later on ask elder students if they may test the feel of the larger swords, and if the elders know anybody willing to sell a similar one. The elders usually see such a person in the mirror every morning because they are also planning upgrades....:)

Hope this was of help

Primeape
Vesa Varhee
Helsinki
ugly man with a heavy sword

Charles Mahan
31st March 2003, 15:49
Ditto. Your instructor will be able to tell you.

Don't be suprised if your setting your length ideals to short. You're almost the same height as me and I use a 2-4-5 and can handily manage a 2-5-0. I do MJER Iaido under the Seitokai and your style may have different length ideals. Apparently under the Sekiguchi-ha of MJER I should be using a 2-6-0 or even a 2-6-5! Eek! Scary part is though with a really big saya-biki and a LOT of hip twist I'd be able to do it too. Certainly ask your instructor about length. I wouldn't worry too much about the weight.

Chiburi
31st March 2003, 15:58
Originally posted by primeape
Hi Umar, here my two sen worth

Curiously enough, the heavier sword made me strike in a more relaxed way, as the blade felt stronger. The smaller one did not feel like anything, so I used more muscle to strike with it.



That's what I like about the Dotanuki, that's the "feel" I'm always talking about. These days I have the feeling that the 850 gram ones are going to break every time I swing them, when only a few months back the mere idea of a heavier iaito than that felt unmanageable.

Not that I have 11 years of training to back up my claims ;)

Cheers,

yohimbo
5th April 2003, 21:31
I think that you should respect the criterion of your instructor. the apprentice should follow the rules or he can finish injured (tendonitis, pains in the shoulders and the back). The size of the sword depends on your personal ability. It is not good to begin practices it of the iaido with a katana of 4-6 pounds like my sword or of 10-12 pounds as that of Sekiguchi sensei, Ueiki sensei (Toyama ryu Kaisho) Mochizuki Minori sensei., Robert Montgomery sensei.,and other.
Those swords are only for true experts. to begin you should feel you comfortable with your sword because she will accompany you always

seskoad
5th April 2003, 22:02
sorry sensei.....would you mind to convert to kilograms because I use SI unit since I was kid (indonesian). :> Also where do you buy your iaito if you don't mind to tell me.

yohimbo
5th April 2003, 22:40
Forgive me, when I mentions you those very heavy swords I talk about a shinken among 42 and 47 inches long with 4 inches wide. Its price this among 4000 - 12 000 dollars, may be buy one like that is not a good idea asks your instructor for help.