View Full Version : There is no refund

6th April 2003, 05:56
After reading some posts about kubotan, I proceed to purchase one today. The store owner (sensei M) is a personal friend of my Karate master, and a kouhai to my aikido sensei...

Out of the blue, Sensei M gets out of the counter, and I found myself confronted with a home-made wooden knife by an instructor of aikido, arnis, wing chun, and a trainee in other martial arts! I tried to Go-kyo (aikido moves), I got "stabbed" in the middle of my forearm. I tried to push his elbow; I got my left forearm "sliced off". I tried kotegaeshi, I "lose 4 fingers" in my right hand. The whole time this happened, I had my kubotan in my hand, brand new and still in the clear plastic bag...

Sensei M askes, "so what technique in which style are you going to use to defend yourself?" I found myself in the cornor, with each and every piece of hair standing erect. There was silence, a drop of cold sweat rolls down my back. He turned around and walked upstair, he wife was grinning at me like I am an idiot...

There is no refund.

-Cody x__x

Shitoryu Dude
6th April 2003, 07:16
hmmmmm.........................practice your art more before buying weapon that is of dubious value? :o

Good lesson there, but don't take it personally. I think all of us have been shown up by our MA betters at one time or another.


6th April 2003, 08:20

Are you implying by practicing aikido more, I could have "survived" the "knife attack"?

I would argue it wasn't the fairest situation because:
1) He is friend of my shihan/ sensei. I think twice, no, 3 times, before I would dream of using aggression on him. Including strikes or blocks or throws. Incidentally, my best trained weapon is karate.
2) If I am ever confronted by a real knife, I don't care how good I am at other arts, I know I will be practicing nike-do (running).
3) I paid for the kubotan, and I was waiting for my change! I couldn't very well just run out of his store when he still owes me money...
3) I told you, he attacked me out of the blue!! It . wasn't . fair!!! :cry:

I feel better now, thank you :D


Ron Rompen
6th April 2003, 16:51

No excuses. Once he attacked you (obviously only in practice, but it was still an attack) you should forget all the other nice stuff, and look at him as an attacker.

Yes, nike-do is a good option, and I am sure that you would have gotten your change back after you came back in (escaping out the door should end the scenario). But since it was obviously (to me at least) a test of your skills, why not counter? Sure, you're going to lose (probably) but it is a good opportunity to find out how well you can adapt.

And the hubaton/yarawa stick is just bonus. I have seen some incredible things done with them (mostly pressure points).

Just my opinion though; I probably wouldn't have done any better than you did :-)

7th May 2003, 21:28
It's a bit of a wake-up call. Time to look at what you've learned, and see how you can use it to defend yourself better. We practice knife defense on a regular basis, but I'm aware that a well-trained knife fighter still has me at a very large disadvantage.

But would I have a chance of survival? Yup. And do I keep examining my techniques and movement for ways to learn to reduce that advantage? Yup.

Doesn't matter as much whether your training (in the dojo) is geared toward knife defenses, as whether you train your mind to handle them.

13th May 2003, 06:40
Thank you for the kind comments, Mr. Rompen and Mr. Seymour. I agree, that was definitely a (rude?) wake up call. My attitude in training has changed since then... but I still think it was quite embarrassingly funny :o which is why I post this in budo fun.

If I have to be really really honest... I didn't even think about nike-do at the scene, it was an after thought. I am glad I didn't learn that lesson on the street with a real blade.

And I certainly agree with training to mentally prepare yourself for threats and aggressions! The more I train, the more I realize, the only thing that transfers readily into real life, is the fighting mind set!


13th May 2003, 08:15
You were attacked by a much better trained person, with surprise on his side and to add to his advantage he had a knife :nin:, and so you lost.
and now you are dumbfounded

why :confused:

Do you always succeed in practice ?
When practicing against an attacker with a knife in en-randori, you never got stabbed or sliced ?
Havenít you done the same to beginners in your class - sliced them to a burger :saw: ? (If you havenít, you should try it once, it is fun, but don't over do it, it frustrates the beginners and then someone more experienced might do the same to you ;) )

I think you should remember this as a joke, funny situation, and not take it as a too serious lesson.


13th May 2003, 14:53
Mornin Cody,

I don't know how I missed this so long... :(

Mike is good isn't he? A good teacher. And Nanyen has a great grin!

I'd have to say that coming out from behind the counter shows a lot of respect for you and if it happens again, go for it (practice mode but committed!). He won't mind and if you ? hurt him, he'll bow in thanks for the lesson! Don't hold back, attitude is everything.

Like most of life, martial arts training is a succession of failures that slowly become successes. You can't succeed without the prior failures.

And don't forget Animal's word for those who try to defeat a knife empty handed - "Corpse." If it can't be done without a great deal of luck, don't feel bad for not doing it.

15th May 2003, 13:27
I think i misunderstood, if you did Gokyo how could you get stabbed in the middle? did you try Rokyo too? did you use your Atemi correctly? (strike, during this move to the face)

15th May 2003, 14:36

Nice photo sequence, but I can't quite place the second pic in the series. The others make sense, but what's going on in that one (it looks like you're heading into Kaiten Nage to me)?

15th May 2003, 14:53
A good classical sequence, Phil, as good as I've seen in seminars everywhere.

Just the kind of thing that made me take up a knife style and learn blade work for myself.

15th May 2003, 15:06
Ah! Now it makes sense. I thought you'd mixed in a pic from another sequence, but knowing that it's a strike, it fits quite nicely. Looks very familiar - not at all unlike one of our techniques (one of my favorites against a knife).