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woolston
10th April 2003, 08:18
Dear E-Budo,

I am looking for a meaningful name for my karate club and have come
across a Japanese term or word - NAISHIN. The translation I have for
this is "innermost thoughts/real intention/inmost heart/one's mind/in
the heart".

My question is what is the norm for naming a club - should I add 'do'
and/or 'kan' after Naishin? How would this fit together. What I am
trying to achieve, I guess, is being able to call my club "the club
where one can find the way to their innermost heart", if that makes
sense.

Also, would this be any different if it were an Okinawan dojo? For
instance, do dojo in Okinawa generally name themselves in Japanese or
would they use Hogan language?

Respectfully,

Steve Woolston
ENGLAND

woolston
10th April 2003, 09:26
Thank you very much for your reply - it is most useful, as I do want to get this right, if I can.

One further question, if I may; does 'kan' refer to a fixed place (i.e. the actual dojo) or can it be for the school (as in a group of people), as we physically train in at least two different places (sports hall/church hall). We are a small club, rather than an 'association' so I gather that 'kai' would not be appropriate?

Respectfully,

Steve Woolston
ENGLAND

Meik Skoss
10th April 2003, 18:32
Generally speaking, "naishin" has a connotation of "secret" and is used in the sense of confidential information. I think, if you want to allude to the inner spirit, something like Seishinkan (or -kai, if you prefer) might be better, "sei/tadashi" meaning true/real. But it may also be the case that there are other, established dojo of the same name, so that might be confusing.

Why not try for something Confucian? "Toku" (virtue) is good, but Butokukan is already taken. So's Shutokukan -- that's my dojo. If you're interested, contact me privately, and we can discuss other possibilities.

While A. Turner's point about large organizations using the word "kai" (association) is correct, I don't believe that it's necessarily a word to be used by large groups.

Likewise, "kan/yashiki" (hall, or [official government] building) is not necessarily restricted to dojo with their own dedicated facility. I sublet from another dojo and it is perfectly appropriate to use kan in my dojo name. If you like it, it should be good enough. But I also agree with Mr. Turner about some names being silly. There are, sure enough, some words/terms that ought to be avoided.

Hope this helps.

Mekugi
10th April 2003, 23:48
How about Seishin Juku?

Just a thought...

-Russ

ghp
11th April 2003, 02:20
Seishinkan (alternate 'sei' kanji) also means Mental Hospital.

....Which may or may not be appropriate in Meik's case!

Hiya, Meik! :laugh:

--Guy

Mekugi
11th April 2003, 02:38
Actually Juku is used commonly- at least down in the Kinki area. Budoka Juku is one I see here and there....and it is colloquial.

@Guy....droll...heehee.

-R

Mekugi
11th April 2003, 02:57
Well, I dunno if they are professional...but they certainly are legitimate. A lot of Karate clubs here are JKA and sport the Juku name to seperate each other. There is also a number of Buyukan- to that affect seibujuku....weird but true.

I like "City" then "Dojo" names myself. Sounds better and keeps it simple to the Japanese language butcherers like myself.

-R

Meik Skoss
11th April 2003, 03:02
There are some dojo that use "juku" as part of their names, but I think it generally connotes a cram school. Certainly, that's what a Japanese/person who's lived in Japan is going to think. Sort of an odd thing, but there it is...

"Kan" is a good ending for a dojo. The character means a sort of official building, implying proper weight and gravity. Actually, one also sees ...kan ... Dojo in a number of instances. But, really, I'd say "...kan" is the way to go.

And Confucian. Not Buddhist. Not Shinto. No Samurai, Tora, Bushi, or Mutant Turtles. Respect for Tradition (since before 1976, if that is possible). Y'know, sort of like the Sokey-Dokey Council, 'n them sort of folks...

Hope this helps.

Mekugi
11th April 2003, 03:43
I trained at a place named "The Samurai Dojo" in Oregon (I also produced their website) and I hated the name something fierce- I still do for that matter. It was named sometime in the late '60's buy a non-speaker named Dewar, so it sounded kewl or something at the time. Along the lines of "Happy Family New China Restaurant" to me. I personally pushed them to change the name to "Buyukan" or something similar- but they wanted to keep the name Samurai. Reminds me of a place up there in Washington that does sushi...Eshhhh.

My personal favorite in extravagent names is "Seibushikodubokaikan". Saw that one in Kalifornia one time. BLARG.

Along this line, unless this a Japanese Karate school completely ambsent of Japanese links (now) I think it is traditional to ask the head "Dude" to name the school. Works that way as well.

-R


Originally posted by Meik Skoss
There are some dojo that use "juku" as part of their names, but I think it generally connotes a cram school. Certainly, that's what a Japanese/person who's lived in Japan is going to think. Sort of an odd thing, but there it is...

"Kan" is a good ending for a dojo. The character means a sort of official building, implying proper weight and gravity. Actually, one also sees ...kan ... Dojo in a number of instances. But, really, I'd say "...kan" is the way to go.

And Confucian. Not Buddhist. Not Shinto. No Samurai, Tora, Bushi, or Mutant Turtles. Respect for Tradition (since before 1976, if that is possible). Y'know, sort of like the Sokey-Dokey Council, 'n them sort of folks...

Hope this helps.

Hissho
11th April 2003, 04:45
What about the Kyokushin offshoot Daido-juku? I think there is a Seido-juku as well.

Or does gendai karate of the kakutogi type operate under different rules?

Kit LeBlanc

Mekugi
12th April 2003, 00:14
Hi there,

I checked with my walking dictionary of Kanji, the one I call girlfriend. She knew a little something about the original use for "juku" and why there more than a few that use this term today in naming their school around here.

She was not sure when it started to be used as "cram school", but she believes that came about sometime in the late Meiji era. In early meiji or preceding eras a "Juku" was in fact a school for the warrior class, namely the "samurai" or "higher ranking" members of the cast. A Juku as a place to learn readin' writin' and 'rithmatic for the fighting man of ye olden times- kind of like the school that sumo wrasslers go to in the 'now time.

Thought I would share....seeing it came up and I went through the trouble to ask!

Mekugi
12th April 2003, 00:19
I have no idea, but those types of names are prolific down here. There is a school of Goju ryu out this way that goes by "Goju ryu (name I forget) Juku" where (the name I forget) is the name of the instructor. I also know in Portland, Kento (the guy that used to own the Bento restuarants) used to call his school "Kento Juku" becuase he wanted to seperate himself from the stuff his uncle Junki Chun was doing but not impose on the name.

Hey how is the weather out there anyway?

-R

Originally posted by Hissho
What about the Kyokushin offshoot Daido-juku? I think there is a Seido-juku as well.

Or does gendai karate of the kakutogi type operate under different rules?

Kit LeBlanc

Hissho
12th April 2003, 02:39
Remember Kano's academic school was called Kano-juku.

Then too I have an issue of Furyu where Sekiguchi Komei's school of Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu Iai is called Komei-juku.

As for the weather its rain....wait its sunn....WAIT, its raining!

Kit LeBlanc

Mekugi
12th April 2003, 03:51
Awesome kit...what edition of Furyu was that...(scrambles home to them up)...that rings a bell.

Ahh yes...the Oregon weather....I truly miss it. I mean, who else knows what a sunbreak is !!