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adroitjimon
30th April 2003, 15:20
hello there readers. i am a student of shotokan,i havent been involved
for a long time as im only 7th kyu orange but allready my sensei has asked my to lead the class in warmup is this normal? if it is i am truly honored to do so. but any ways i believe the reason to be is that i plan to open my own dojo in the future and my sensei is just giving me the opertunity to gather skills needed to teach a class of young or beginning students .he talks to me some after class but i do not know him on any other level other than through my training and am
wondering if there is a reason to this perhaps this is the wrong forum to postin but baffling budo seemed a bit too accusational when all i am interested in is doing everything in keeping with our dojo kum. the main emphasis i am focusing on is of course the stretching
and retraction of the muscle groups used in our training and the
importance of proper stances and also alittle bit of the spirituality
required in regards to respect,discipline,and self awareness. the only problems i have faced which aren't really problems but getting the class cut ups to quit cutting up in class butalot of that has to
do with at home development by their parentsand if that is the case how do i get them to "mind" when they are not required to do so at home ? because if they are being disruptive without regard to the other students who are there to learn and the class has to stop when they are being corrected how are the classes to advance ? well this is my technique for solving this delemna i really only have two that dissrupt and to keep others from following suit i have the one who disrupts assume a pushup position while the rest of the class is in a stance holding position while i read orsay some of the precepts which go with the particular dissruption .i will close this post with a quote i made up to chant as a mantra while i am issueing corrections "rests earned reflect energies spentwhile searching for the perfection of character,respect is earned while endeavoring to respect others,honor is dictated by the clever use of sincerity,
a statue is the projection of proper etiquette meant to be observed, dissruptionof class is an act of violence which we must all refrain from". if any one has any advice or comments they are truly welcomed
till next time adrotjimon :D

Andy Watson
30th April 2003, 17:57
Christopher

Can I first just say that the possible reason why I am the first to reply to this is that people may look at your writing style and decide it is too hard work to read. Please, please take the time to construct your posts in a clear, readable fashion. Divide up your sentences with periods and caps and put in paragraphs where the topic changes.

I'm not trying to teach you English but you will get a much better response if the post is easier to read and I can tell by your selection of words that your grasp of the language is fine.

Now in answer to the question, I would say that you should accept the responsibility of taking the class through the warm-up as a great honour and leave it at that. Perhaps your sensei sees a potential in you which he doesn't see in others and wants to develop you. However, I wouldn't be too enthusiastic to set along this path of opening your own dojo - ambition is good but too many people have become superficial teachers of the arts by being too focused on breaking away from their teachers. When the time for you to branch off arrives, if your teacher is good then he will tell you.

Finally, and I hate to write this because it sticks in the craw somewhat but we do live in this day and age, if the approach of your teacher becomes a little too strange then I would take a very objective view of what is going on. I don't know how old you are or what sort of person he is but this can be a sick world we live in and everyone needs to be conscious of the powerful position that someone can get in when they are known as a teacher.

Hope that helps.

Good luck

tddeangelo
30th April 2003, 19:14
Well, it looks like there are two issues (I think....but Mr. Watson is dead on when he suggests some writing style improvements:) ).

Issue #1- Is it normal for a relatively new person to lead class through warm-ups?

My Response- It CAN be, it depends on the traditions of your style, organization, school, sensei, etc. It is not unusual for a sensei to have junior students lead warm-ups, and often it is used as a teaching tool by the sensei to teach the person they have leading class. It's not hard to pick up on how a sensei does their warm-ups, so often very junior members can be given the experience of leading class through warm-ups.

Issue #2- How to manage the class, specifically undesireable behavior.

My Response- Wow...spend a couple days in a public school in the TEACHER'S position and you'll see how truly good we have it in a dojo. So how to handle the troublemakers? Ask sensei. In his school, everyone follows his rules. Let him decide how to handle them, that's why he's the sensei. If one of my students took it upon themselves to discipline a more junior member during my class without my involvement, I'd have some REAL issues with that. I'm not trying to sound stern or angry, but Sensei needs to be involved in such issues.

Hope that helps...when in doubt, ask sensei!:)

Regards,

gpseymour
7th May 2003, 16:15
To follow up on TD's 2nd comment (btw...where's that full name, TD? : )...

If your sensei has given you some instruction (even if it's "handle it"), you have the authority to discipline those who are out of line. However, at your rank, I would expect the instructor to lend a personal hand in discipline, since the cut-ups are unlikely to show proper respect to you because of your rank. The common truth is that those who disrespect the class are far less likely to do so in the presence of someone who seriously outranks them (either an instructor or a senior student). With kids (which it sounds like some of these might be), they often show little recognition of rank below black belt. Once they get to know you, and understand that you will discipline them along the same rules and guidelines that the sensei uses, they will develop respect for your discipline. Usually. Just don't get overbearing in the use of discipline - laughing it off when it's appropriate goes a long way toward adding weight to any disciplinary action taken.

All that said, I would consider it unusual, but not necessarily inappropriate for an instructor to leave a student of your rank in charge of a class. There should be an instructor or senior student helping to make sure things are safe and correct, since you are not very experienced yet. But I don't know the situation there, so that might not apply - JMO.

tddeangelo
7th May 2003, 16:48
Originally posted by gpseymour
To follow up on TD's 2nd comment (btw...where's that full name, TD? : )...


I assume you're referring to me ;)

My full name? Tom DeAngelo....I think it appears in my signature, but hey, maybe it's those funky disappearing electrons that only show up for me. ;)

If no sig appears at the end of the arrow, tell me and I'll try to get those pesky invisible electrons to behave!! :D

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gpseymour
7th May 2003, 17:02
Tom...

I was ribbing you because it didn't appear on the post prior to mine, though now it shows on my screen. I was just having a laugh at the absence of the .sig, but it seems the system had the last laugh on me. : D

Ong Han Beng
8th May 2003, 03:33
Hi All,

We usually don't have much problems with members in our dojo.
I usually ask new members to leave whatever notions they
have about the martial way they are going to learn
outside the dojo (when they just joined).
We step into the dojo with an empty mind.

If you go into a dojo with half a glass of coffee, and
the teacher is trying to make you tea, we will get the wrong taste.
To drink tea, your glass have to be empty.

Cheers
PO

buyu213
11th May 2003, 22:49
I have had to teach many times when I was "ib the kyu" in various arts. I have even been told to teach the class the principles of a technique I my self had just been exposed to. It is an invaluable tool to a teacher! In the arts there are three things going on at once... physical mental and spiritual ability. Although not all choose the spiritual path, it is there. Many superb artists I have tarined with have said if any one of the three is lacking you hit a plateau. Teaching something you may not be able to do yet will reinforce the working principals behind the technique.

As far as disruptive classmates... My shidoshi (sensei, teacher.. whatever) does not charge a penny to anyone. We currently have a disruptive student that will either learn respect quickly or decide to quit. We do A LOT of rolling in our art and we will do jumping rolls on concrete until he decides to quit if need be (we have done it in the past). If they don't want knowledge force feeding it to them will only create resentment and that is the worst thing you can have in a school (in my humble opinion).

To sum it up... if the are actually undesireables work on the most tedious basics you can. It is good for all students and after a while the only ones that will stay are the dedicated ones that you want in your school.

Ong Han Beng
12th May 2003, 01:53
Konichiwa,

Some food for thoughts. Students reflect a Sensei's image from techniques rite down to even character traits.

I personally feel that proper spirit, good understanding of techniques and the culture of the Budo (Japan) should be
imparted 1st hand.

Proper warming up excercise lead by beginners is ok if we want to develop their confidence and character (these can all be used as teaching methods).

Teaching "The Way" is altogether another matter. It is a heavy responsibilty that may lead to regrets later if not done properly. But then, we all need to start somewhere eh?

Cheers
PO
:)

shotofan
21st May 2003, 23:10
It depends.... Are the warm ups before or during class? I'm also in Shotokan... 5th kyu...

If the warm ups are before class, I wouldn't read much in to it. Your sensei may just think you're way of streching is better. And it would be easier for you to show the class insted of you teaching him then him teaching the class.
If it is during class I would say he sees some thing in you.. So he is teaching you how to handle responsiblity, or how to handle being in charge....

Now the cut-ups I think you should tell the sensei, and ask to handle them since they only do it when you are in charge... Other than that I don't know what else to tell you:karatekid