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O'Neill
30th April 2003, 19:10
I was wondering why Oyama sensei didn't include the wonderful techniques of Yoshida sensei in his art? He called Yoshida sensei the best technician and a true fighter but didn't pass on the teachings? Does anyone know why? I just saw a site that quoted Oyama sensei and spoke much of his relationship with Yoshida sensei. Evidently, he awarded menkyo kaiden to Oyama sensei.

O'Neill
30th April 2003, 19:14
Here is the site that I mentioned and on it, it says that oyama sensei called Yoshida sensei, the best of the takeda ryu students- pretty high praise from an amazing fighter. This is a great read for those interested in Yoshida sensei!

Link to Oyama on Yoshida (http://kyokushin.ca/kyokushin/history/history09.html)

Richard Elias
30th April 2003, 19:46
Mas Oyama supposedly has a menkyo kaiden certificate in Daito ryu that he claimed came from Yoshida Kotaro. Though being as Yoshida had only achieved the level of Kyoju Dairi I don't see how this could be. But he also said that Yoshida was the found of Daito ryu, and we known that's not true.

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/letters/letter9.htm

I understand that in the higher ranks of his organization there is a series of jujutsu-type techniques that could be related or perhaps derived from DR techniques. But I've never seen them and from what I've heard they're pretty basic stuff.

Walker
30th April 2003, 21:41
Originally posted by Richard Elias
I understand that in the higher ranks of his organization there is a series of jujutsu-type techniques that could be related or perhaps derived from DR techniques. But I've never seen them and from what I've heard they're pretty basic stuff. Joe Svinth is more the one to answer if the Kyokushin Kai has any jujutsu techniques in it, but having met Jon Bluming 10th Dan Kyokushin Kai and famous Judoka, he has never mentioned much in the way of jujutsu when speaking of Oyama.

When he demonstrated his idea of all around fighting by throwing down a fellow student and tying him up with his belt he said it scared the pants off Oyama. So take it for what it’s worth, but it seems that Oyama was about karate and that’s what he taught at the Kyokushin Kai dojo.

Nathan Scott
30th April 2003, 21:46
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O'Neill
1st May 2003, 19:48
Perhaps Yoshida sensei considered the daito ryu "aikibujutsu" to be his? Not likely but maybe? Maybe the addition of his family art made it different than say, aiki budo or aikijujutsu. Does this menkyo kaiden appear anywhere else so that others may get a closer look? Maybe the technical content differs and is unique?

Richard Elias
1st May 2003, 20:26
No. As far as is known, Yoshida only taught Daito ryu publicly. He did not mix the two. Though some of the Yanagi training practices might have been mixed in, when he taught Daito ryu the techniques were Daito ryu. He was Kondo Katsuyuki’s second teacher in Daito ryu. According to Kondo, Yoshida did have scrolls and techniques in other arts such as tessen and shuriken, and also is own family art, but these were not included in his teaching of Daito ryu. When Don Angier visited Kondo he allowed him to handle a tessen that he had that had belonged to Yoshida. When Don began doing Yanagi ryu movements with the tessen Kondo said he recognized them as those that Yoshida sansei did but were not taught as a part of Daito ryu. Yoshida did not consider Daio ryu “his own” in fact it was Yoshida that encouraged Kondo to train with Takeda Tokimune. Kondo had attended seminars with Takeda while still studying with Yoshida.

I don’t know anymore about the Menkyo that Oyama received. Since much of the information he had was inconsistent with known facts, I personally don’t give it much credence.

Jake McKee
1st September 2003, 02:48
A few people have commented on the menkyo that Oyama received from Yoshida, Kotaro. The copy that I came across is not a menkyo kaiden but a "parasol and suteki goshin jutsu (great self defense) mokuroku". Click here (http://www.budovideos.com/images/covers/oyama1.jpg) for a larger version of the image.

Best,

Jake McKee
www.budovideos.com

Nathan Scott
7th October 2003, 19:30
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