Book: "DR AJJ HM Ikkajo", by Kondo Katsuyuki

[Nathan Scott]

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[Kendoguy9]

Hello Nathan-san et al.

My take on the Takumakai was that they had similar techniques in their Hiden Mokuroku, but they were in different orders and other small differences. I thought that they decided to go by Takeda sensei's version of the Hiden Mokuroku. Maybe I got my facts mixed up? For those kanji literate people there is a Japanese website that shows the names of all of the 118 Hiden Mokuroku. The address is: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/daito-ryu/

If you go under "Arts" you will find the names. The first two kajo if you hold the mouse over the picture of the various kanji you can see the name in Romanji. The Ikkajo you can click on each kanji and see the technique being preformed. There is no caption, the pictures are grainy and poor at best, and they do not show the key parts of the waza. Many of them do not show the inbetween sections of the moves and are very confusing if you don't know whats going on. They can give a general idea though. However it would be best to buy Kondo sensei's book as it should break down the most important ideas and show the vital parts of each waza.

And just to remind everyone Kondo sensei WILL be in Baltimore Md this November for a seminar, so you can buy the book and get him to sign it, too (wink, wink, cleaver ploy to draw in more people to the seminar). You can find more info about this seminar in either the E-budo "seminar" page, or by going to http://www.Aikidojournal.com.

Gambatte!!!

[Walker]

I am going completely from memory here, but it was my understanding that the Takumakai adopted Tokimumi’s hiden in the effort to “reunite” various threads of Daito ryu and found that the transition was relatively easy. Then after his death they drifted back to their original curriculum and found interestingly that it was more difficult for students to go the other way ie. learned the iemoto first and had to go to the Takumakai version.
Personally, I find Stanley’s offerings to be of high quality and think having some of the curriculum in print from a credible source in the mainline tradition to be of value as a research tool and to help clarify the contents of mainline Daito ryu especially in these times of turmoil.
As for “profit” I think all of the millionaire MA want-to-bes would be a bit disappointed by the ROI of a typical MA book hence video (those who can’t write make videos?!?)
:saw:

Popie, (Gollum)

I have never really read or resonded to most of your posts because since we don't know who you really are or what your level of martial arts experience is, your pontifications in my view amount to nothing more than background noise. Most of your ramblings aren't really of any interest to me unless they present incorrect information or are based on ignorant assumptions on your part. In such cases I am motivated to comment. For the first time I will.

Is it your contention that Kondo's motive for publishing this book was for monetary gain? If so you indeed live in a cave. A very dark cave Popie Gollum. Katsuyuki Kondo is a very wealthy man and owns a large construction firm. His dojo comprises one floor of his headquarters office tower. Any monetary gain from such a book would be absolutely miniscule in relation to his financial net worth. I would contend that the time he spent on this book may have lost money for him considering how much his time is worth.

If your contention was that the Abarishi groups motivation for trying to hijack the mainline Daito ryu was monetary gain, then I agree with you but what the heck does that have to do with Kondo's publishing a book? Your above post is so obtuse that I don't think anyone could figure out what you mean't. Frankly a great number of readers here couldn't care less

Look, comment on subjects you understand and are knowlegable about. I don't go over and comment on the Genbukan threads because I don't know anything of substance about the Genbukan. If I did I would ask questions and conduct myself as a guest on their thread and refrain from making inflamatory statements that demonstrated my ignorance.

This advice came from my father long ago.

"When surrounded by people more knowlegable on a specific subject than yourself, sit back and listen. They'll never know if you understand the topic of discussion or not and you just might learn something! The second you open your big mouth however, you'll remove all doubt"

Good advice

[Mokushin]

Nathan,

It was my understanding that the Ikkajo - Gokajo of the Shoden (Hiden) Mokuroku corresponded to Shodan - Godan, in the kyu/dan ranking system Tokimune Takeda instituted. However, in the Kodokai, I believe a student receiving the Hiden Mokuroku also receives a nidan. I'm sorry that I can't remember where I read this but it was either in Aikido Journal or in the "Conversations" book. Maybe this will jog someone else's memory?

Sincerely

[Nathan Scott]

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[Kendoguy9]

hello all,

I was not going to say anything about Mr. Kondo's company in public as I didn't know how common knowledge it was. But since Toby-san said something I will add a point. When Kondo sensei comes to Maryland to Mr. John Goss' dojo he does not get any money for it. That doesn't mean Goss sensei doesn't try, just that he will not accept any. He instead asks Goss sensei to give any money to his students who come with him to help him. No he's not in it for the money, and as Toby-san said he probably lost moeny writing it. I'm pretty sure he wrote it so we can have good material on the subject matter. Some times a cigar is just a cigar. ;)

Gambatte!!!

[Kendoguy9]

PJ,

you are right, we are a study group, and are of course less then a full dojo. we practice as best we can. you may not have a dojo until san dan, or sankajo. we only practice the ikkajo. infact the only difference between us and anyone else who wants to practice the ikkajo from the tapes is we are official in that Kondo sensei set us up and indirectly oversees us. we also have much greater access to him via email, letters, phone calls, etc. so we are more then any old study group. no one in the study group has any rank, nor do we expect any or even want any. we are a small class of less then a dozen people. the group is not lead by me, but by John Goss sensei a godan in Aikikai aikido and a nidan in Korindo aikido. because we have no rank we don't have seniors, except Goss sensei who has been doing it much longer (about 4 years if emory serves) with Kondo sensei. we do sit according to who has been there the longest and most consisitant with the group. i get to sit up in the front, but that has nothing to do with skill (or in my case lack of) just time put in. I have been with Mr. Goss for a little over a year now. there is a Mr. Mark Sumi, who i think has sandan or yondan with Kondo sensei and can be seen taking very pretty ukemi in the Daito-ryu ikkajo tapes in the USA but last i heard he wasn't active for what ever personal reasons he might have. so it seems we are the only active branch of Kondo sensei's line of Daito-ryu in the states (and maybe outside of Japan i don't know for sure). anyway that should answer your questions. so tell me a little about your training and situation. it's only fair after i spilled my guts you spill yours :).

Gambatte!!!

[Kendoguy9]

hello again,

PJ is right that we did get a little touchy, so to balance things out i'll make another point. the Seishin group isn't really trying to sell much of anything either. they have a few (in my opinion bad) tapes of the whole hiden mokuroku they sell at a few places and thats about it. yeah they are trying to sell themselves, but any dojo or group that has a website does, so i'll not count that. so who is trying to sell what and make "mad loot" from the deal PJ? maybe you can come to Baltimore and you can meet Kondo sensei and train?i'm sure it will be a good time for all.

[Nathan Scott]

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[Justin Campbell]

OK... I ordered mine the first day orders were taken... I am now very jealous that mine is not here! :(

Guess that the Northern section of CA will get ours tomorrow (I can only hope!)

Lets hear those comments.

Wish I were going to the seminar... but I should be a new Dad in a few days and can't leave so soon after.

TTYL,
Justin

[Mark Jakabcsin]

"Wish I were going to the seminar... but I should be a new Dad in a few days and can't leave so soon after. "

Congrats!! Please let us know if it is a boy/girl and the name. Best of luck and all the good stuff.

mark

[miguel ibarra]

i just received my copy of kondo sensei's book. it appears to be excellent, as i expected. i compared it to a training manual put out by takumakai and to a short aikibudo photo manual put out by tokimune sensei in the 80's for a commemorative event.

it definitely fills in some gaps that exist in the other 2 publications [ unknown whether on purpose or not].

it also complements his videos very well; as well as some of the hakuhokai [takumakai] and other hiden mokuroku videos currently on the market. i like how he demonstrates where some of the techniques have been modified for safety sake, although i prefer to practice the original version.

i am extremely sorry i will not be able to attend his seminar [ conflicts with work] . i studied with yonezawa shihan and have trained with okabayashi, kawabe and nakamura shihans. hopefully, i'll be able to train under him in the future.

anyway--- i think the book is excellent, for whatever my opinion's worth. miguel ibarra

[Justin Campbell]

Got my copy on Saturday! It as expected... EXCELLENT! I feel that Stan Pranin only puts out high quality information and products. Many thanks to Kondo Sensei and Stan Pranin!

Enjoy,
Justin

[glad2bhere]

Got my copy of this little darling and it was everything I had hoped for and more. Every now and then on these Nets someone asks about Top Ten this and that. My vote is that this puppy makes it into the "Ten Most Influential MA Books." Takers?

Best Wishes (and a tip of the hat to Mr Pranin and Sensei Kondo),

Bruce

[MarkF]

Hi, Miguel,
Apparently not many are interested in reviews right now. They are probaby awaiting their own copies, but I have a question.

With all the discussion, old and new, of "keeping it small," keeping it personal, interviewing students, proving oneself, etc., why publicly publish a book which may do this very thing. Granted, it is only the Ikkajo series, I believe?

But since Okamoto S. book came out, in effect and apparently saying he wanted to pass it on to the world so the techniques would not be lost. Is Kondo S. book for that purpose, or is it instructional only, or is it in Japanese only?

I wonder about it since that does seem to be a goal, but also, it fans the flames for all who want to gobble up this new flavor of MA, and spew them out anyway they wish, taking advantage of the gullible, etc. There seems to be more than enough problems in this area so is this book as Okamoto's book was, to inform?

Well, it is just a question, and you do say it is "excellent." Still, there are those possiblities.

But I think also that even if true, and some take advantage, it is worth the risk. After all, Jigoro Kano took a big risk, and S. Takeda did by teaching in as many places as he could, but it still is something to think about.

Mark

[Arne Oster]

http://www.aikidojournal.com/catalog/kondo.htm

As I understand it only the omote versions (and an ura version of Shihonage) are detailed in this book, as in
the instructional videos.
I haven't been able to obtain an accurate transcription
of the names of the the Nikajo-Gokajo sets. Don't think
they are included here, either.

Regards
Arne

[Walker]

The book follows the pattern followed by the popular Saito Sensei Books. Good, moderate sized, photographs in series of 8 or so with alternate views and variations in supplemental photographs. These are accompanied by short, but thorough text descriptions of the actions seen in the photographs. Each technique is named. There is a short history/update from Stanley that is like a supplemental update of his Daito book. There is a short listing of six principals of training in Daito that are a bit light on specificity. Interestingly, Kondo’s Menkyo Kaiden is reproduced, but is very low resolution making it impossible to read whereas pages from the eimeiroku are clear. I assume this is on purpose.
The format of the techniques changes the traditional order (this is noted in the text):
Tachiai 10 standing techs.
Idori 10 seated techs.
Ushirodori 5 rear attack techs.
Hanza Handachi 5 seated/standing techs.

[miguel ibarra]

to mark f .i can't even take a guess as to the motivation for publishing the book but i am grateful to have it. but i do think that somewhere there has to be a realization that ultra small training groups in todays world do not lend themselves to the preservation of traditions.
the book is in english and japanese uing the format used in the saito books and early aikinews.

i think nowadays there is always a danger in reproducing certificates in print. with computers people being the way they are, scanning is not beyond some individuals.
arne,
the names of all the other sets are included in the takumakai's training manual which is available to members of the takumakai. miguel ibarra

[Nathan Scott]

[Post deleted by user]

[bomb tech]

What book did Okomato publish and is it available to the public? What about the book by Shiro Omiya "The Hidden Roots of Aikido - Aiki Jujutsu Daitoryu"?

[glad2bhere]

Dear Don:

I mentioned the book you cited on the AIKIDO JOURNAL Net and was advised that the author was marginal at best regarding his training in Daito-ryu (Ref: Stanley Pranin E-mail). This does not cause me to discount this source out of hand in my research, but it frames things very differently when I note disparities between that volume and say, the new book by S Kondo.
Best Wishes,

Bruce W Sims
http://www.midwesthapkido.com

[O'Neill]

Do you think that the rest of the hiden mokuroku will be covered in the future?

[don]

Originally posted by O'Neill
Do you think that the rest of the hiden mokuroku will be covered in the future?

"Cat fud" ("Oh, please, please, please...")

Stanley is noncomittal on the subject, I've emailed him. In Baltimore for his last seminar, Kondo asked the assembled if they wanted a NIKAJO book, a no-brainer, but he loves to play the crowd. The response was overwhelmingly yes, of course. He said there that he would write one but made no mention of time frame, alas.

[YuSanHapki]

Good news, nevertheless.