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Daniel san
12th May 2003, 14:54
Hello,
I had a customer question that I have not been able to answer. There is a Japanese art supply company called Sakura. We sell their student-grade traditional supplies. I was wondering what Sakura means. I asked our rep, but he looked at me like I had asked a stupid question and said he didn't know. I guess I can look it up, but I was really wondering why he looked at me that way.

samuel-t
12th May 2003, 15:15
When I searched the Japanese <-> English Dictionary Server (http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/nocolor/dict) for "sakura" (http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/nocolor/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=J&T=sakura&WC=none&fg=w&S=26) I found the following meanings:

decoy

and

cherry blossom; cherry tree

Hope that might help your debafflement. :)
/Samuel

Daniel san
12th May 2003, 15:41
Decoy? Hmmm, cherry blossom is probably right because of their logo. Decoy would be more metaphorical. For instance, what we carry are the low quality student grade materials. But, like a decoy, someone who didn't know would think they were the real thing. When I am Shogun of the art department I think I will bypass the salesman;)

P Goldsbury
12th May 2003, 16:17
Originally posted by Daniel san
Hello,
I had a customer question that I have not been able to answer. There is a Japanese art supply company called Sakura. We sell their student-grade traditional supplies. I was wondering what Sakura means. I asked our rep, but he looked at me like I had asked a stupid question and said he didn't know. I guess I can look it up, but I was really wondering why he looked at me that way.

Is your rep Japanese? Perhaps not, because if so, he would have answered the question, after looking at you like you asked a stupid question. From your post, it seems to me that it means cherry blossom, and for the latest discussion of this powerful concept among Japanese, I suggest you read Emiko Ohnuki-Tierney's "Kamikaze, Cherry Blossoms and Nationalism: the Militarization of Aesthetics in Japanese History" (Chicago U Press, 2002).

I note that 'sakura' also means 'decoy'. Perhaps this is close to the meaning of the term I have learned from my university colleagues. 'Sakura' are questions asked of visiting speakers that have been agreed beforehand.

I was at a meeting (in November) to arrange for a very distinguished American visitng lecturer and the discussion turned to sakura. Since it was November, I questioned the appropriateness of cherry-blossom viewing for the visitor and there was general laughter. Because the visitor was so distinguished, there had to be questions and, since no one in Japan ever asks questions, these had to be arranged beforehand and also had to be such as to further illuminate the virtues of the speaker, if no one had been left in any doubt as a result of the speech.

My Japanese colleagues treated my question as one that might be asked by someone of below-normal intelligence, so I got my revenge by asking the first question after the lecture, which took so long to answer that the 'sakura' questions were never asked.

Best regards,

Earl Hartman
12th May 2003, 18:51
Professor Goldsbury:

Extremely interesting. Can you enlighten us as to why the term "sakura" is used to mean "decoy"?

M. McPherson
13th May 2003, 00:09
I'll second Mr. Hartman's request. I learned the idiomatic definition of sakura to mean "a shill", or "a plant" (not the botanical variety). The idea of it meaning "decoy" would follow, wouldn't it? Still, I've never been able to find out just exactly *why* sakura has taken this meaning (i.e., the connection between the commonplace definition, and its use as an idiom). Polite inquiries to native Japanese friends as to its etymology have been met with equally polite admissions of uncertainty (Or the equally oblique, "Well, because...that's just how its always been used."). Any light you could shed on the matter would be appreciated.

Respectfully,

Meik Skoss
13th May 2003, 13:18
Heeeeeiii... (bowing) I had *no* idea that "sakura" could mean a pre-arranged question. I was aware it could mean shill or decoy, but just not in that context. Benkyo ni narimashita.

Peter, I hope that, after you had your question answered in such a long fashion that nobody had a chance to do their, you could do a hand pump/gaatsu pozu under the table and whisper "Yes!" to yourself. I mean, you go, boy!

Seriously, your story explains a lot of stuff to me (like, f'rinstance why the lecturers at the Budo-Culture Seminar were always sooo uncomfortable with participants' questions). I attended Yagyu Sensei's lectures for more than twenty-five years and nobody EVER asked a question there; it was only afterward, in a one-on-one situation that people would do so.

Like I said, benkyo ni narimashita. Thank you.

Daniel san
13th May 2003, 14:20
Thank you for the information. It was actually immediately helpful. I must have been breathing correctly when I asked the question, because a customer came in and asked it of me again. Domo:smilejapa

P Goldsbury
13th May 2003, 15:38
Hello Everyone,

Here are some meanings on p.1060 of the 5th edition of the "Kojien" (?LŽ«‰‘). They are grouped together in the dictionary as related meanings. The much larger "Nihon Kokugo Daijiten" (Vol 5, p.1444) has more entries, with citations (all from 1789 onwards, i.e., late Tokugawa), but I think the relationship connecting the meanings comes out more clearly in the "Kojien" and coincides with the random reflections my Japanese colleagues offered.

(a) ‚½‚¾‚ÅŒ©‚éˆÓ?B
Seeing something free of charge.

(b) ŽÅ‹?‚Å?A–ðŽÒ‚É?º‚ðŠ|‚¯‚é‚悤—Š‚܂ꂽ–³—¿‚ÌŒ©•¨?l?B
Spectators who are let in free of charge at a play or show, with the task of being very vocal (in praise) of the performers.

(c) “]‚¶‚ĘI“X?¤‚È‚Ç‚Å?A‹ÆŽÒ‚Æ’Ê–d‚µ?A‹q‚Ì‚Ó‚è‚ð‚µ‚Ä?A‘¼‚Ì‹q‚Ì?w”ƒ?S‚ð‚»‚»‚éŽÒ?B‚Ü‚½?A‚܂킵ŽÒ‚̈Ó?B
In street stalls, people who, in collusion with the operators, pretend to be random customers who encourage innocent customers to buy from the stalls.

Those of my Japanese colleagues who felt confident enough to give an explanation (two out of the six I asked), saw the central thread as a public spectacle of people enjoying themselves in public (like a cherry blossom viewing party), in which participation is free, and from there to the idea of getting something for free as an enticement to do something else, usually in response to group pressure or encouragement. Thus (b) refers to people who are let in free in order to collude with the sponsors of the spectacle in order to make it more attractive, so more people will pay to go and see it. Thence, as in (c), to extend the meaning a little further, to include people who collude with the proprietors, or who are proprietors themsleves, who pretend to be genuine customers and 'buy' some goods, who are so vocally impressed by the value of the goods offered, that other, innocent, customers are enticed to buy the goods.

I suppose the central idea of 'sakura' at a lecture is a mixture of (b) and (c). I myself saw the questions that had been prepared. I had the job of getting the speaker to come to give the lecture and the questions had to be approved beforehand. 'Sakura' questions could not be just any old questions. The problem was that the lecturer was not Japanese and had just arrived in the country. He woud have been appalled at the total vacuity of the approved questions.

Best regards to all,

Peter G.

Daniel san
13th May 2003, 16:00
Thank you for that. It seems that the art supply company Sakura has chosen their name well.

Earl Hartman
13th May 2003, 18:52
Damn @#!&?*&*#!! monolingual computer!

Still, it all makes sense if you know Japan. Lowly listeners and kouhai can't embarrass or challenge the O-Sensei in public, now, can we? Wouldn't be proper, don't ye know? Mess up the "Wa" of the situation and all that. Might even make things unpredictable, which means they might (gasp!!) get out of control, and.....and....<i>something spontaneous might happen!!</i>

P Goldsbury
14th May 2003, 02:49
Hello Meik,

Œä‹v‚µ?U‚è?I

I used to think that sakura questions were so called because they were usually vain and evanescent, dying away almost as soon as they had been asked. In the same way that ˜_‹c‚̉Ԃð?ç‚©‚¹‚é (Making the flowers of argument bloom)-type discussions serve no useful purpose at meetings or conferences beyond giving people the feeling that thye are participating.

My Japanese colleagues thought that good movies to watch for sakura-viewing were the Tora-san movies.

Best,

Peter G.

Daniel san
14th May 2003, 14:51
We need a concept like this in America. People often ask inapproriate questions that are met with an embarassing silence, or worse a lie. However, Americans are too vocal for this concept. We ask a question and by God or the constitution there will be an answer. I thank you all for yours.:smilejapa