Randori and Multiple attacker practice

[StanLee]

Just a quick question to everyone on randori and multiple attacker practice.

How does one go about doing it? What I mean is, are there any guidelines, does all "attackers" launch themselves at you at once or do they politely wait until their turn to attack like in those early kungfu movies!:D

Also how do I get the right atmosphere in multiple attack pratice?

Any other comments, suggestions and ideas are welcomed.

Cheers

Stan:wave:

[MarieB]

i found a couple of relevant threads :p

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14341&highlight=randori+and+multiple+attackers

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16873&highlight=randori+and+multiple+attackers

hope that helps :)

[StanLee]

Thanks MarieB for the threads. Most useful. I've decided to use them as a basis for some multiple attacker randori.

Just goto find the willing bodies to play on...;)

Stan

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by StanLee
Just a quick question to everyone on randori and multiple attacker practice.

How does one go about doing it? What I mean is, are there any guidelines, does all "attackers" launch themselves at you at once or do they politely wait until their turn to attack like in those early kungfu movies!:D

Also how do I get the right atmosphere in multiple attack pratice?

Any other comments, suggestions and ideas are welcomed.

Cheers

Stan:wave:

I just taught a workshop on Randori in Las Vegas and one of their students did a lengthy review. It has some explanation which might be useful. See:Randori Seminar Review (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3841) Hope this is of interest.

[P Goldsbury]

Hello George,

Many thanks for replying. I read the review of your randori seminar on Aikiweb and was very impressed. From what I understood from the review, you have made explicit as teaching principles the same crucial factors that I have absorbed over the years from my own training, but never crystallized as such. I always demand 'taninzu-gake' at grading examinations, but I get the time to teach it only at the tail end of a spring or summer seminar.

I would be glad to hear of any thoughts about the optimum number of attackers for teaching purposes. I have found by experience that there is not much point in having more than four (migi, hidari, mae, ushiro).

More is very good for demonstrations and I note that one famous shihan always uses about 10 ukes at the Annual All-Japan Demonstration in Tokyo. But (a) they do not really attack, by any stretch of the imagination and (b) they tend to fall over each other, earlier than seems necessary. It is rather like the 'eye contact' of another famous shihan at the same demonstration, where ukes usually fall as a complete result of making such eye contact, (like the basilisk in the second Harry Potter film).

Best regards,

[szczepan]

yes, early kungfu movies.

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by P Goldsbury
Hello George,

Many thanks for replying. I read the review of your randori seminar on Aikiweb and was very impressed. From what I understood from the review, you have made explicit as teaching principles the same crucial factors that I have absorbed over the years from my own training, but never crystallized as such. I always demand 'taninzu-gake' at grading examinations, but I get the time to teach it only at the tail end of a spring or summer seminar.

I would be glad to hear of any thoughts about the optimum number of attackers for teaching purposes. I have found by experience that there is not much point in having more than four (migi, hidari, mae, ushiro).

More is very good for demonstrations and I note that one famous shihan always uses about 10 ukes at the Annual All-Japan Demonstration in Tokyo. But (a) they do not really attack, by any stretch of the imagination and (b) they tend to fall over each other, earlier than seems necessary. It is rather like the 'eye contact' of another famous shihan at the same demonstration, where ukes usually fall as a complete result of making such eye contact, (like the basilisk in the second Harry Potter film).

Best regards,
Hi Peter,
We have had some debate over whether three or four attackers is the most difficult. More than four and everyone you touch will hit another attacker when you throw them. They simply get in each other's way. We have about a thousand sq. foot mat and I think that three attackers is optimal for really teaching the different movement principles we have identified. You can add ukes if the space is large enough. Matsuoka Sensei's Randori at the Expo last year comes to mind. He used quite a few ukes if I remember correctly but my students were gratified to see him use virtually every one of the movement principles we practice at some point during his Randori.

[Peter H.]

If the attackers coordinate properly, you can squeeze four in, but anymore than that, and the excess are just sitting around waiting to replace a tired guy.

With four we practice scenarios of being restrained by two or three and struck by who's left, or attempts to overbear, dog pile, or bum rush. Optimally, you don't want to get in these situations, but we let them happen from tiem to time to work on escaping when they do happen. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes the results don't look like pure Aikido.

[Larry Feldman]

George - Any chance you will produce a video of your training?
I saw Alex (who wrote the review) this weekend and he strongly encouraged me to see you 'live'. However, budget and time will not allow at this time.

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by Larry Feldman
George - Any chance you will produce a video of your training?
I saw Alex (who wrote the review) this weekend and he strongly encouraged me to see you 'live'. However, budget and time will not allow at this time.

Yes, some sort of video or video illustrated manual is in the works but don't hold your breath. We do the full Four Day weapons / randori trainings twice a year, you're always welcome. Are you going to be at the Expo?

[bruceb]

I guess, it is kinda like American football, where you have a goal to knock down, or get to a certain person, and if you have the football, everyone wants to knock you down, so what'cha gonna do?

Damn straight you are gonna do your best to get through whoever is in front, back, side, or behind you trying to take you down, right? Well, unlike football, you can use the bodys of those coming at you to block, to be a weapon, or distract the others who are attacking you, so in effect you have a lot more mobility and opportunity.

Try not to think in terms of one, two, or three people, but in terms of using each opportunity that presents itself to your advantage.

The reality of practice is not to hurt your training partners, but the reality of conflict is to learn to hurt your attackers enough for you to be safe and remove yourself to a safe area. Somewhere, in between safe practice and reality, you will find the level of practice for 'Randori and Multiple attacker practice' that is your level of comfort.

I think it is kinda like football in that you are finding a way to get through people who want to knock you down, but unlike football, you can certainly redirect the bodies of your attackers to be thrown to your advantage.