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wilddog
20th May 2003, 02:39
Hi everyone, I need some help as I am considering training in karate. My first choice is kyokushin as I have trained in it before but there are no schools around my area and I came across an add for goju ryu and the person teaching it seems pretty reputable. I was wondering what type of style this is and whether it would suit someone that really liked training in kyokushin. Also on the add it has:
Okinawa-Goju-ryu
Karate-Jutsu
Whats the Karate Jutsu bit mean?
Any help and advice would be appreciated.

Sochin
20th May 2003, 03:02
Wild dog

you are welcome to this place.

Goju is cool, go for a good instructor rather than a 'style.'

Please re-read the rules at the bottom of each page and sign your full name to each post, ok?

wilddog
20th May 2003, 03:42
sorry about that

Tim Bowen

Goju-Ryu
20th May 2003, 12:43
I think taking Goju-Ryu would suit very well someone that really wanted to train in kyokushin...

The jutsu part means "science", as "Do" means way!
There are certain diferences along with these 2 approaches, but what's really important is the instructor you'll have...

Why don't you try a few lessons and decide if it is a good choice!

Good Luck :p

sepai 85
20th May 2003, 13:04
first of the derivitive jitsu is diffrent from doh.

jitsu-implies combatative applications of the movements as its prime concentration

doh-still has the aspects and technique's of the jitsu but applies them to spirtual growth.

As for goju ryu I have been training in it for 5 1/2 years and have not once been disapointed. Goju ryu is one of the original four styles which I believe are

goju ryu (naha te)
uechi ryu
shorin ryu

and one more which I cant think of at this moment

goju has everything you need

kihon- ido and still

kata- there is 13 goju ryu kata

kakia-sticky hands developes sensitivity to opponents energy

kumite- renziko kumite, iri kumi, jiyu kumite ,shiai kumite , sanbon
kumite etc etc

katie- body conditioning

bunkai-which includes ju jitsu oyo

and many many many other things

yours in shugyo

Markaso
24th May 2003, 15:43
Mr. Bowen

I think the first step might be you need to think what you want/ need from your training. Second How long did you train in Kyokushin?


I have been training in Go Jyu Ryu since 86 but minus 2 years as I was in Canada for 2 years and did not have a teacher for that time. I first went to Japan in 86 and left in 90 back in 92 and here ever since. I can say that Go Jyu Ryu is a well rounded art. As Mr. Jacobs said some schools do not teach free Kumite.

Here, in Japan, I have come across some that teach tourney Kumite and some that do teach free Kumite. Myself I like a combination of both Kata and Kumite. More on the Kata side.

I think best though as was said is to visit all the schools you can and go from there. See what they have to offer but I would caution to look for a reputable school and teacher.


Good luck:look:

Jock Armstrong
27th May 2003, 04:27
Goju is a good system. It tends to be more "trad". The kata are very Chinese in nature. A lot of emphasis on close range [elbows, knees, headbutts- any body who doesn't believe that have a look a Shisoochin kata!]. I liked it.Still do. You could go a lot worse.

CEB
27th May 2003, 14:24
Goju Ryu stresses getting real close with lots of heavy breathing. :)

Jock Armstrong
28th May 2003, 02:23
By extending ki down a phone line you can breathe heavily long distance.:kiss: :beer:

Markaso
29th May 2003, 22:42
Originally posted by Jock Armstrong
Goju is a good system. It tends to be more "trad". The kata are very Chinese in nature. A lot of emphasis on close range [elbows, knees, headbutts- any body who doesn't believe that have a look a Shisoochin kata!]. I liked it.Still do. You could go a lot worse.


Mr. Armstrong

I agree with you that Go Jyu Ryu is a very good and well rounded system.



It would be interesting to know what Bunkai (applications) you were taught from Shisouchin. Yes I do agree that there are elbow strikes and also forearm strikes. Also prevalent are some palm strikes. But I have never seen any knee or headbutt strikes in that Kata or for that fact any of the other Kata that I have been practicing. Or should I say that they have never been introduced to me by my Sensei.

Jock Armstrong
30th May 2003, 02:27
The move which is often interpreted as a double elbow in shisoochin can also be interpreted as a grab to the shirt front, pulling the victim into your headbutt. There are lots of bunkai applications from any one move. Your instructor is probably waiting for you to ask him. "Could this be a....". My old instructor would drop hints about tpossible bunkai and let us work it out.

Jock Armstrong
30th May 2003, 02:29
As for knees, look at saiha, just before the front kick goes in.:beer:

sanseiryu
30th May 2003, 02:46
One of the bunkai for a knee strike would be at the beginning of shisochin, after the three stepping nukite strikes, opponent grabs your wrists, you defend by stepping back, spreading your arms to the side, drawing opponent in, then deliver a knee strike with the same leg to the opponents midsection. A backward head butt is sometimes used in combination with the rearward punch just before the palm heel strikes section. Seiunchin has a very similar bunkai where the double lapel grab is defended against by grabbing the opponents wrists and using a front head butt or stepping back and using the knee strike. Kuruunfa has a backwards head butt after the arms come up over the head then pull down. Just a few off the top of my head.
George Yanase

Markaso
30th May 2003, 02:53
Mr. Armstrong

I see the Idea of Shisouchin now. As I was taught it, it was either a double back punch over the shoulders or an escape when someone grabs both of you wrists. Interesting application:toast: .


:smilejapa I do stand corrected, I knew and forgot about the knee application in Saifua.

Jock Armstrong
30th May 2003, 03:38
Call me Jock, Mark. Mr Armstrong is my dad. I'm 42 now but desperately in denial....

Markaso
30th May 2003, 04:39
Mr. Armstrong

:smilejapa I appreciate the offer but I have always been taught to respect the people you do not know. I understand how you feel as I am now 43. Not in denial yet.

Markaso
30th May 2003, 04:55
Mr. Yanase

You have come up with some very good points:toast:





Originally posted by sanseiryu
One of the bunkai for a knee strike would be at the beginning of shisochin, after the three stepping nukite strikes, opponent grabs your wrists, you defend by stepping back, spreading your arms to the side, drawing opponent in, then deliver a knee strike with the same leg to the opponents midsection.[/QUOTE

Interesting, although that would mean, if I am understanding you correctly, that you would have to kind of stand up again in order to use your knee.



[QUOTE]Originally posted by sanseiryu
A backward head butt is sometimes used in combination with the rearward punch just before the palm heel strikes section.


Sort of difficult for me to do at the same time as doing the back punch.



Originally posted by sanseiryu
Seiunchin has a very similar bunkai where the double lapel grab is defended against by grabbing the opponents wrists and using a front head butt or stepping back and using the knee strike.

I can see this would work if you were in a more os a standing position as opposed to when you are in a shikoudachi ( straddle stance)




Originally posted by sanseiryu
Kuruunfa has a backwards head butt after the arms come up over the head then pull down. Just a few off the top of my head.
George Yanase


Have to say I forgot about that one too:smilejapa

Sort of running on empty not much sleep see you all after a good days rest.

sanseiryu
30th May 2003, 07:24
The bunkai as I described can be done as closely as possible to the movements of the kata or certainly you can try them in more natural stances to approximate a condition outside of the dojo. It is not required that you perform the actions exactly as described, in a low shiko dachi or a long zenkutsu dachi. It isn't imperative that you have to head butt to the rear simultaneously with the over the shoulder punch, rear elbow with the other arm, while driving your buttocks or hip back into the opponent. Just one of the above techniques done properly should allow you to extricate yourself from a grasp from behind. Try to simulate a real world situation or try variations on the same bunkai. Pick the biggest and strongest person in the dojo and have him or her, get a grip on you and see if any of the bunkai can work. Don't look at the bunkai and think that this is the only one to use for this or that application. You should be able to interchange the various bunkai from the other kata, see if an application from Gekisai 1 will work in Shisochin or visa versa.
George Yanase

Markaso
30th May 2003, 09:35
Mr. Yanase

:toast: Agreed and thanks. I think that some of the Bunkai in the other Kata can be combined. I also have known that some applications can be performed better in other stances as well. Got some well needed sleep and I am ready to go.

Markaso
30th May 2003, 10:51
Originally posted by sanseiryu
The bunkai as I described can be done as closely as possible to the movements of the Kata or certainly you can try them in more natural stances to approximate a condition outside of the Dojo. It is not required that you perform the actions exactly as described, in a low shiko dachi or a long zenkutsu dachi.

:toast:
Agreed and good point! As some stances work better than others for certain Bunkai.





Originally posted by sanseiryu
It isn't imperative that you have to head butt to the rear simultaneously with the over the shoulder punch, rear elbow with the other arm, while driving your buttocks or hip back into the opponent.


Yes. Sanseiru is a very good one for using ones butt and elbows.






Originally posted by sanseiryu
Just one of the above techniques done properly should allow you to extricate yourself from a grasp from behind. Try to simulate a real world situation or try variations on the same Bunkai. Pick the biggest and strongest person in the Dojo and have him or her, get a grip on you and see if any of the bunkai can work.

Usually do experiment with other katas Bunkai to see if they work in different and the same situations, A good training technique for sure.



Originally posted by sanseiryu
Don't look at the Bunkai and think that this is the only one to use for this or that application.
George Yanase

Never did and never will. I know that there are many Bunkai and or Oyo for a Kata. Ones imagination is the boundary. The problem I am having is that there are so many factors that go into a single Bunkai/ Oyo to work that sometimes it is difficult just to get one of the basic Bunkai to work consistently. I guess that is what hard practice and training is all about!

Yep and the training goes on!