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View Full Version : Do locks and throws work in the streets ?



Yamarashi
20th May 2003, 21:55
I am really interested in hearing "practical, hands on" experience ....

Steve Williams
21st May 2003, 00:28
Sorry, never been unfortunate enough to be in that situation (using locks/throws in a "real" situation).


Just one thing though,
Forum Rules:
Please sign your posts with your full name.


I have used a release before in a "real" situation....(a couple of times) and that worked just fine

Jock Armstrong
21st May 2003, 01:04
They indeedly do!! Removing obstreperous patrons is a big part of the job.Unles you want to carry an inert body [not to mention assault charges] an appropriately painful lock would encourage baddies to leave under their own steam. "sleeper" holds were effective even on coked up types, even when they could feel no pain from ordinarily highly effective strikes. Throwsusually get used when someone else grabs you when handling a "client". Not necessarily the spectacular ones- I remember using tai otoshi [hip roll] most- simple tech and never let me down. Standing grapples were often the case. Learning short range strikes and entering for locks is the big practice area.Most karateka are fine when it is a fist fight but they need to learn some grappling and locking [funny how old kata have a large amount of locks and grappling moves in them but it seems that few instructors teach the bunkai- especially the goju and shorin kata]. Jujutsu guys have the grappling skills but often lack accurate focussed striking. To be effective in "the street" you need a wide base of tech to work from. Throws and locks are very effective- or else why did the old Japanese instructors teach them- they were all for real life encounters. Modern practitioners might do budo for whatever reasons they want but the original arts were for fighting.:beer:

Gene Williams
21st May 2003, 03:53
I have used uchi mawari and kote gaeshi a couple of times on difficult people in order to keep things from escalating into real trouble. Gene

Walker
21st May 2003, 07:37
Not really. Throws work best on the couch whereas a lock is only properly functional on a door of some kind.

Gene Williams
21st May 2003, 11:41
I knew a girl once and she could do some mean locks and throws on a couch. I liked it. Gene

sepai 85
21st May 2003, 12:46
locks-pain complaince , put the limb out of commision

throws-get one of and your opponent hits the concrete at full velocity they crack there head and its over.

As I am sure you all know there is throws that intergrate locks into them such as kohonage,koto gaishi ,ude garimi, etc. If the attacker tries to struggle these throws they can easily be turned into a break of a limb or the tearing of muscle fiber.

yours in shugyo

Qasim
21st May 2003, 21:43
Originally posted by Walker
Not really. Throws work best on the couch whereas a lock is only properly functional on a door of some kind.
:mst:

Qasim
21st May 2003, 21:50
Originally posted by Gene Williams
I knew a girl once and she could do some mean locks and throws on a couch. I liked it. Gene
:mst: :nono: Shame on you two. Let's keep it clean now.

sepai 85
24th May 2003, 20:52
It is obvius that people have lost intrest in this thread because it is no longer on topic so lets get back to the subject at hand. Are locks as in joint locks and throws wether they be projection or takedowns effective in the street. I think I will restart this thread back on topic with my comments.

koto gaishi

ude garami

kohonage

shihonage (some variations more painfull then others)

o soto gari (this is effective also because it can be a tibial strike)

sankyo (can go straight into a takedown from the lock)

tai otoshi (a great throw easy to pull of)

those are some of the throws that have been proven very effective for self defence there are many many many more throws and locks that will either

1) cause pain

2)take your opponents limbs out of the equation

3)kill your attacker (absoulutly last resort)

Ok so lets have some more feedback for this post please it has potiental if people come to it.

TyroneTurner
26th May 2003, 20:46
Throws work exceptionally well on the street. I only had the chance to use a throw in a fight about 13 years ago or so - I hope that I don't have to do this again because street fights are scary.

Anyway, I threw my attacker with an o-goshi (major hip). Unfortunately for him, he didn't know how to slap, so when he hit the deck, he hit his left hip, his left elbow, and he banged the left side of his head and that opened upt a large cut.

Once that happened, I was like Rex Butler - "Gone with the Wind!" ;-)

After you've trained using an uke to get the mechanics down on a SELECT FEW throws/joint locks, move on to practicing them against resisting opponents. How else will you know what you can do when the "stinky-stuff" hits the fan?

For instance, In my primary style we use a lot of atemi, so I pretty much train to follow up my strikes with a few basic joint locks like ikajo, sankajo, and nikajo. Also, a few throws kote gaeshi, irimi nage, a few hip and shoulder throws.

I think that less is more when your behind is on the line.

Peace & health,

Gene Williams
26th May 2003, 23:10
It's Rhett Butler;) Gene

Mitch Saret
27th May 2003, 00:54
While it's a good q

Mitch Saret
27th May 2003, 00:58
While it's a good question to ask, I think it's the wrong one. The question should be " CAN they work?

That being said I believe the answer is they most definitely can. I have used them during the years I was a bouncer, I even used them in the military during combat.

Are they guarnteed to work 100% of the time? To say yes to that would be irresponsible. It depends on the training and the individual.

elder999
28th May 2003, 22:20
Originally posted by Mitch Saret
While it's a good question to ask, I think it's the wrong one. The question should be " CAN they work?

That being said I believe the answer is they most definitely can. I have used them during the years I was a bouncer, I even used them in the military during combat.

Are they guarnteed to work 100% of the time? To say yes to that would be irresponsible. It depends on the training and the individual.

It also depends upon the person they are being used against. While I looove koshi garuma,there are a lot of people I wouldn't use it on, as I am 6'2". Conversely, sukuinage works in quite a few situations for me, but there are people I wouldn't do it on.I've used both in "street situations" ion the dim, dim past......as well as a couple of others.

Gene Williams
29th May 2003, 00:07
[QUOTE]Originally posted by elder999
[B]

...ion the dim, dim past...

Can you ionize the past and send it as a stream of charged particles into the future? :confused:

elder999
29th May 2003, 00:26
Originally posted by Gene Williams
[QUOTE]Originally posted by elder999
[B]

...ion the dim, dim past...

Can you ionize the past and send it as a stream of charged particles into the future? :confused:

oooh, it could be a typo.....or classified information.

Morning Sky
5th June 2003, 00:25
Do they work? Sure they do. I do agree with some of these guys. It all depends on several factors. Most of the time you can't just walk up to a guy in a crowded place and put on your favorite lock.(Unless you are a very sneaky ninja). In most cases, you will have to set it up or distract the guy or gal. Then it is open season rabbit!
Wayne Crocker

Jeffrey Goodwin
17th June 2003, 22:16
Greetings

Just stumbled upon this thread so my contribution is a little late, I tend to keep to the CQC and Aikido forum (contributing to the former as the latter can be a little too "pretentious" at times - in my opinion).

I have used the immobilisations I have developed in my Aikido and LEO CQC (primarily Taiho-jutsu) in real conflict situations several times and they have worked. There have been times when, for whatever reason, they have not had the desired effect or the situation has changed and I have had to adapt to it.

To be effective in a "real situation" you have to have a good understanding of martial principles and an arsenal of Atemi-waza, Osae-waza and Nage-waza. But in answer to your question they will work if you can get them to work. I know that sounds contradictory but you have to have a solid base in martial principles - remember we practice "techniques" to provide us with a vehicle to deeper understanding of the foundations of martial principles.

I have used what can only be described as Ikkyo (in one form or another) several times against initially resisitant individuals. I have also found forms of Hiji-kime-osae and Ude-garame useful too.

As for throwing - to be honest I have only used solid hip type throws or body drops in conflict, I think personally speaking that more "technical" throws or "fancy looking throws" like for example Shiho-nage may not have the desired effect unless all the factors were in your favour and I've never wanted to take the chance. Throws are difficult for LEO's as we usually have a huge belt on with lots of stuff on it!

But it is important to note that, in my opinion, they must go hand in hand with striking. Sometimes you need to strike an opponent to disorientate/ break posture etc. before doing something else (a control or take down etc.).

Thanks for reading.

Hissho
19th June 2003, 16:10
Originally posted by Jeffrey Goodwin
Greetings

Just stumbled upon this thread so my contribution is a little late, I tend to keep to the CQC and Aikido forum (contributing to the former as the latter can be a little too "pretentious" at times - in my opinion).



Have you been to the aikijujutsu forum? LOL.

Kit LeBlanc

Joseph Svinth
20th June 2003, 03:43
Maybe that's what's nice about the judo forum, as there, the Stinky Thumb of Death is still believed to be an effective deterrent to Manifestations of Ki.

:)

PaulP
20th June 2003, 05:25
I haven't used may throws in real fights, but I have used joint locks. Beleive me they work.

Mike Williams
20th June 2003, 10:52
Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
Stinky Thumb of Death

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cheers,

Mike