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View Full Version : When Did You Realize Just How Different Japan Can Be?



Joshua Lerner
21st May 2003, 22:58
A new thread inspired by Mr. Lowry:


In fact, that might be a worthwhile subject for another thread. When and what were the circumstances under which you realised just how really, really different Japan can be?

I'll start with my very tame instances, with the understanding that I do so only so that others will shame me with the magnificent depths of their experience and debauchery. Not necessarily in that order.

- spending a summer in Yokohama as a high school student, and seeing my first vending machine on a street corner selling pedophile porno magazines.

- during my junior-year-abroad at Nanzan Daigaku in Nagoya, experiencing what folklorists call the "antinomian" aspect of celebrations in cultures that are fundamentally agricultural. Two instances come to mind:

a. in February, probably around lunar new year, some friends and I were invited to participate in the Hadaka Matsuri ("Naked Festival"), one of the four (or five or something) "Strange Festivals" of Japan. To make a long story short, it involves ending up drunk in a broad boulevard leading up to the shrine (forget which one), wearing only a loincloth and short tabi, in a relatively continuous mass of flesh composed of about three or four thousand drunk farmers, also in loincloths, while freezing cold well-water is thrown at you. You do this for a while, and then a completely naked young man, surrounded by drunk bodyguards, runs out into the boulevard, and everyone else tries to touch him to bring good luck while his bodyguards try to keep everyone away. The man who is chosen to play this role apparently dies during the ordeal occasionally, and becomes a kami. It was the first time in my own life when I was sure I was going to die.

b. sometime near the end of the school year, the students at Nanzan were given a one or two hour period during which they could publicly party. I remember how suddnely all hell broke loose on the usually very quiet campus, with students jumping in fountains, molesting women, etc. Then, at precisely the stroke of 3 pm, someone somewhere threw that switch that connects to the limbic system in the brains of all Japanese people, and uproar came to a screeching, silent halt.

koma
22nd May 2003, 12:02
BEER in vending machines. Right then and there it was decided, I will live in Japan someday. There is just something totally..."right", about beer in vending machines!:toast:

will
22nd May 2003, 13:26
There is just something totally..."right", about beer in vending machines!

Hmmm... I guess you've never actually had the beer in the vending machines, have you?


I remember one day, riding the crowded trains, standing shoulder to shoulder (in so much as a sixth-grader can) with lots of salarymen and women. I noticed several guys, young, old, and in between, clutching their briefcase under their arm or in their lap, and reading some of the raunchiest anime and porn, quite oblivious to those around them (and they to them).

Now being 10 or 11 years old, with only a modest exposure to such material myself (hey, I was just getting started!), I was quite astonished and even embarassed. Everyone else on the train seemed to be able to mind their own business and stay "zoned out." I tried to do the same, despite my pubescent urges to stare and catch what glimpses I might. However, everytime I turned in place to avert my gaze, there was another page of temptation not far off. I finally figured out I could just look at my shoes until the next stop.

Karl Friday
22nd May 2003, 22:18
Originally posted by koma
BEER in vending machines. Right then and there it was decided, I will live in Japan someday. There is just something totally..."right", about beer in vending machines!:toast:

Better than that: beer in talking vending machines.

One of my first nights in Japan, a bunch of us discovered one of these whilst stumbling back to our dorm from an already-long evening of drinking (highlighted, theretofore, by one friend's attempt to explain, in broken Japanese, what he meant by "tonic" to a very confused bartender; and eventually settling for gin and cola--which tastes as awful as it sounds, BTW).

The machine we found not only talked, it featured a cartoon of a cute little girl who bowed and thanked you when you put your money in, and bowed and thanked you again when the machine delivered the beer. Keep in mind, that this was in the 70s, before even ATMs had video screens. In this case the cartoon was animated by a series of pictures lit in sequence.

We had so much fun with the whole idea of a talking beer machine that we ended up hanging around for another couple of hours, just to play it.

Meik Skoss
22nd May 2003, 22:57
About five minutes after I arrived at Itami Int'l. Airport (in Kansai). I had to go through a huge, involved process at customs because I had brought a Chinese broadsword with me from Hong Kong. It had sufficiently high ferrous content that it was not allowed into the country (I'd brought it along because a friend wanted to give it to our mutual t'ai-chi ch'uan teacher). Anyway, there I was at the Customs Office, for a loooooong time, with a couple of people who spoke almost no English and me with *very* little Japanese. After much to-ing and fro-ing, they told me that the sword would be waiting for my friend when he left from Haneda Int'l. Airport and apologized for keeping me so long. Then one of the guys at the airline office took me to one of the nearby business hotels.

All the politeness and care taken was truly impressive. Anyway, it seems to me that the governmental bureaucracy, although often quite maddening, was generally very helpful and got things done in good time. Compared to what goes on here in the U.S. or other countries, I'd say that is a major difference.

Later, I had encounters with many kinds of Japanese: good, bad, and indifferent, but I have never forgotten that first instance.

And, yes, the talking beer/sake machines. The capsule hotels. All of those weird Engrish-u messages on packaging and advertising billboards. The utter absurdity of some situations, due, no doubt, to having slipped through into the Japanese Twilight Zone.

They were interesting experiences, to be treasured and savored. Did it make me nuts? You bet! Would I trade those times? No way in the world! Would I do it again? Hmmmmm...

hyaku
22nd May 2003, 23:36
We christened out local machine the Steel Buddha. At 38 deg c in summer we would always bow down low to it before extracting that fizzy mugi-juice. Not many around any more as too many kids were using them.

I think my first memory was being shown a wonderful traditional hot tub of water after traveling thousands of miles. Sadly I could not fit in it.

Hyakutake Colin

P Goldsbury
22nd May 2003, 23:41
After one of my first classes at Hiroshima University, a small group of students came up and explained, in their best English, that they had a dilemma. They had only 20 minutes to get across town from another campus, in order to attend my class. Would I be so kind as to to receive them in my class, even if they were a little late? No problem, I replied, I would just inform the office.

This was a major mistake. The students were summoned by a senior professor and given a severe dressing down (lasting about 45 minutes, with some of the female students in tears) about the importance of being on time. Then the senior professor turned to me and said (in his best English) that there was indeed a problem: would I be so kind as to receive the students in my class, even though they came a little late?

I was speechless for a moment and nodded and then the senior professor profusely thanked me for my intellectual perspicacity and moral magnitude in devising a way out of this problem. The students crept out of the room, feeling about one inch high. The senior colleague smiled and said that that was 'the Japanese way'. It was the first of many such 'explanations' I have received here over the years.

Best regards to all,

Earl Hartman
23rd May 2003, 00:43
Well, let's see:

The pervasive SM porn anime, of course. It was mind-boggling to realize just how nonchalantly people accepted the incredible degradation of women in the comics. The "Hanzo the Razor" comics still mysify me. I guess the blatant depiction of men weilding their penises like weapons was startling. It is a good deal more sublimated in the US. And I had never seen adults reading comics of any kind in the US.

The low-level, but obvious, anti-foreigner racism, and the unapologetic depiction of same in all aspects of poular culture. This sounds trite, now, of course, but as a red-diaper baby I had been subtly, and not so subtly, influenced to believe that racism was a white man's disease. It was, actually, quite liberating to realize that the Japanese were no better than anyone else in that respect, although it took a while to grow a thick enough skin to deal with getting laughed at all the time.

Actually having people refuse to rent apartments to me just because I was a foreigner, and not feeling that they had to offer any explanation or even feign embarrassment.

Having cops stop you on the street and ask for your Gaikokujin Torokusho just because you're a foreigner and "well, you know, you're mezurashii and I just wanted to talk". Asshole.

Realizing that Immigration keeps a file on you with all of the articles the idiots in the local press wrote about you because you were so mezurashii. (Remember, this was 30 years ago in Kanazawa, not Tokyo today.)

Having Japanese girls ask if it is really true that gaijin know more about sekkusu than the Japanese do and is the hair down there the same color as the stuff on your head? (Unforunately, this particular girl, while not bad looking, was a simpering dunce).

Bars where guys pay women to pour drinks and lie to them.

Everybody ordering exactly the same thing at restaurants.

People peeing in the streets with no shame, but being disgusted at the poor manners of foreigners who eat while they walk.

The apparent belief that if you're a foreigner, any stranger can go ahead and ask you whatever the hell he damn well pleases, since reigi obviously doesn't apply to outsiders.

The incredible rudeness of 10-year old Japanese boys. Little shits.

The incredible politeness of 10-year old Japanese girls. Little angels.

The utter inability of certain people to hear Japanese when a foreigner speaks it to them.

The incredible ability of Japanese children (girls, in both cases where this occurred) to believe you are Japanese if you speak their language, even if your skin is pink and your eyes are as blue as Paul Newman's.

CKohalyk
23rd May 2003, 01:18
Nice Earl. :)

On my first trip to Japan just out of high school I was in Tokyo. I decided I wanted to visit some J-mates in Kyushu so I hopped a boat and went down. They took me over to Nagasaki and I started to get low on yens so I decided to cash a travellers cheque or two.

My friends pulled over and decided to wait in the car. I walked into the bank and took a number. An entire hour passed. This happens in Canada often so it didn't really phase me, I was just worried about my friends outside baking in the car. Anyways I get up to the till and sign the cheques. 30 mins later they come back with the money. By that time I was starting to get a little peeved. Anyways, I got my cash and I am headed for the door.

While walking I put the cash in my wallet and I notice that there is a bit more than usual... Eh? They gave me almost twice as much! I was like "nice rate here in Nagasaki!" but then I realized that they were AMERICAN Traveller's Cheques, and even though they were in Canadian denomination she must've given me the US$ rate!

...I am staring at that inviting automatic sliding door... I have been in this stuffy bank for and hour and a half... my friends are baking in the car outside...

Being the upright boyscout that I am, I went back to the teller and told her she made a mistake. After a barrage of apologies and arigatous they made me wait another 30 minutes. The teller came back with the manager and handed me my money and a small present. Turns out he ran outside and bought me something in gratitude!! I was like "Okay! You people are ALRIGHT!"

So I finally get outta the bank, and I am feeling good. I hop in the car and explain all to my mates. After that I decided to open the gift. What was it you ask? Just imagine, just exchanged a sum of foreign money and are obviously travelling from a far off country. What is it that you need the least? You guessed it! They bought me a TRAVEL KIT, with a toothbrush and matching comb.

O! What foreshadowing!

Yeah, they are a bit "different" alright.

Chad Kohalyk

PS, Actually to tell the truth, I don't think I realized how "SPECIAL" Japan is until I started working for a Japanese company. That took me to an entirely new level.

Earl Hartman
23rd May 2003, 01:23
Chad:

Has your experience working for a Japanese company been that it totally sucks? I worked for one for three years and then came to work for the home office in the US, and it was like night and day. Not sure which one sucks more, actually. Both Japanese and American companies can be hellholes, but just in different ways. You're not just an amusing mascot if you work for an American company, but then, nobody gives a flying leap about you either.

Joshua Lerner
23rd May 2003, 01:41
Hearing everyone else's stories made me remember a realization I had that probably seems pretty simple. The first time I was there in high school, I was there for two months, and I got to feel pretty comfortable walking around the neighborhood and started to feel at home there. But near the end of my stay, I was walking to the train station one day, and something about the way someone was staring at me made me realize that no matter how much I got used to being in Japan, it would never get used to me. I would always be a foreigner, period. I don't know if that would be the same anywhere else, even in China, where there has always seemed to be an imperative to absorb and assimilate foreigners.

Earl Hartman
23rd May 2003, 01:50
Judging from what I have heard about the treatment of foreign exchange students in China, the Chinese apparently make the Japanese look like pikers when it comes to xenophobia.

Joshua Lerner
23rd May 2003, 03:04
Maybe with exchange students, and certainly with the Communist beaurocracy. But from what I've heard from a number of people, the Chinese are more willing to socially accept foreigners who are there long-term. Whereas in Japan, I knew one foreigner who had been living in a village for 30 years, studying three generations of women in a particular family, and he said that even though he was very familiar with everyone in the village and everyone knew him, the bottom line was that he was still treated as a foreign visitor.

I've heard at least one person describe it as being as if the Chinese think of being Chinese as an attitude instead of a race. Which was literally true in some periods of history, especially early on. If you were willing to learn to write your language using Chinese characters and accept their cultural superiority, you were considered Chinese. That attitude has never seemed to be very popular in Japanese history.

Joshua Lerner
23rd May 2003, 04:12
And I just mangled the word "bureaucracy" in that last post.

CKohalyk
23rd May 2003, 05:32
Originally posted by Earl Hartman
Chad:

Has your experience working for a Japanese company been that it totally sucks?

That would be the experience I was talking about. :rolleyes:

But, my perception may be a little warped. Unfortunately my job before coming to this one was working in international exec education, where we taught foreign execs (mostly from east Asia) strategies to run their multinationals efficiently. Then I come to one of the most inefficient companies on the face of the earth, and have no power to change anything (although, I take the opportunity to tell my superiors all the time). And I wonder why I am ostracised?

Actually, I don't tell them how to do their job better, I just suggest alternatives. They usually hmmm and haaa and suck their teeth, agree, and then nothing ever changes and they wonder why their expenses are killing them and nothing ever gets done on time.

Well, enough ranting, back to work.

CK

gmellis
23rd May 2003, 06:02
Earl,
I always, always enjoy your posts on life in Japan, and the same for the rest a yuz guyz.

Hmmm, when I realized that Japan is a Twighlight Zone? Ah!

1. When I was commuting on trains, and, because of the piece of ¤¤¤¤ heaters/air conditioners (or the cursed jyakureibo cars. AGGGGHHHHH!), the inside of the car was twice as hot as the outside. Here's the catch (drum roll): despite my train comrades displaying obvious signs of discomfort, dizziness, heat stroke, etc., NOBODY OPENS THE GODDAMN WINDOWS!!!! I walk into a car, "damn it's hot!" then crack open the window wide, and I can feel the sigh of relief from the people around me and see their faces struck with awe and wonder at the ingenious way I solved the problem. You see, Japanese train cars blow out air at the same temperature and rate whether the windows are open or not, so it's not like opening the windows will shut or weaken the aircon anymor than it is.

2. Again, commute trains. When I experienced for myself, what it was like to be human cattle packed into cattle cars at 150% or more above carrying capacity (literally packed, as the platform conductors lean into the bodies hanging out the doors to shove them into the car and slam the doors closed; if the train crashed, people would die simply from the weight of the people around them breaking their chest cavities), and having people standing in closer contact with me than my mother has ever been to me!

3. When I realized that working in Japan is like being Joe in Joe and the Volcano in the opening scenes when he commutes to, and arrives at the office. All black suits, moans and sighs like aging, sickly cattle letting out their last breathe of will to live, blank lifeless waves of faces. Hooyah! Par-tay!

4. When I realized how much monumentally more socially inept Japanese people in general are to yappity-yap Americans (God blessem!). When I found out that (At least as gaijin are concerned) Japanese people will answer open-ended questions in a very yes-no format. "Hi, my name is Greg, I'm new here! So, what brought YOU to Oyaji Toupees Incorporated?!" "Needed a job. Got work to do, see ya." "Ooook, ciao"

5. While Earl, my role model, mentioned it before, I will mention it again, because it irks me like nobody's business. "The utter inability of certain people to hear Japanese when a foreigner speaks it to them." Walking into a restaurant with gaijin friends (if wife was along, the maitre de would blot out rest of us and address her alone) and preemptively saying to waiter Žl?l‚Å‚·‚ª‹Ö‰Œ?È‚ª‚ ‚¢‚Ä‚¢‚Ü‚·‚©(There are four of us, do you have any no-smoking seats open?), only to have them sweat, shake and stutter back "e...e.. you....habba...a...fo...peepo?" Or better yet, is the blank teary-eyed face of death that we caucies bestow on the cash register attendants as we slowly approach them from a distance away, like DEATH himself slowly descending on his prey. Byuahahaha. THAT's special I think.

6. Being invited by cowokers for hanami, only to be ignored the entire time by these same MFers, or given akward stilted responses. I probably would have been the life of the party if I had given free English lessons that day. Word to the wise: wanna be popular in japan, pretend like you don't speak a lick of Japanese.

7. When my wife and I passed an old man clutching his chest and bent over on some stairs to a department store and I yelled out "Oh my god, that manis dying!" and leaped toward him to see if he was OK, only to have my wife stop me and say, "If he really needs help, he'll cry out for it. Old people can get embarassed when others offer them help and them don't need it" If the nonchalant passing by of the rest of the crowd was any indication, it wasn't just her that felt that way. THAT was my second biggest shock about this country. A man clutching his chest where I came from would energize a small army of people who would rush to the scene and check his status.

8. There are more, by I saved the biggest shocker for last, because it has colored by perception of these people permanently and made we realize that gaijin have to be very self reliant and cover there own asses, because you will get no or little help from japanese people. A horrible fever came over me one morning when I was teaching at a junior high school. My cool principal told me to go home, and asked if I could make it home alright. Feeling so-so, I said I could and walked toward the station. By the time I got to the platform I was feeling really hot and dizzy. I got on the train, but it was packed (depite going TOWARD Tokyo at 2:30 in the afternoon (damned students and jobless wakamono)). I held myself up beside the door by leaning against the door and holding onto the bar, but things got preogressively worse and I had to squat down to keep from toppling over. In the squat position I looked around me to see if any seats were open, but they were full, and all of their occupants were sitting their comfortably staring at me like I was some kind of circus side show (look at the funny, sweating, swaying gaijin, how interesting. I wonder if he's a drug addict?). Just then, my vision started tunneling, but I could hear the train decelerate and pushed my self to stay awake just long enough that I may be able to make it to the platform and pass out. The doors opened and I used my last strength to stand up and exit. luckily a bench was SMACK DAB in front of me. I fell onto it and passed out. Judging from my wrist watch, I must have been passed out for well over an hour when I came too. There was a platform guy just 20 paces away flashing his stupid lamp for the arriving train. He didn't seem to have cared for my condition. I eventually made it home, but that experience really showed me how different Japan is from where I come mind. Mind yuo, this event took place in the rural parts of Saitama, not the calloused, edged parts of Tokyo. Japan sure is "different" alright.

Joshua Lerner
23rd May 2003, 14:49
5. While Earl, my role model, mentioned it before, I will mention it again, because it irks me like nobody's business. "The utter inability of certain people to hear Japanese when a foreigner speaks it to them."

Oh god, I forgot about that. I once asked someone on the street about how to get to the train station, and they answered me, *in Japanese*, "oh, sorry, I can't speak English". Every now and then I amuse myself imagining how the conversation could have gone -

Me: "Excuse me, how do I get from here to Nagoya station?"

They: "Oh, sorry, I can't speak English."

Me: "That's okay. Can you at least tell me if there is a good place around here to get noodles? There is a great noodle shop in the station I'm trying to find."

They: "I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but like I said, I don't speak English. Good luck!"

Earl Hartman
23rd May 2003, 20:09
NOBODY tried to help you at all, Greg?

Jesus. Remind me to never get sick in Japan.

Oh, yeah, people puking all over the place and everybody ignoring it.

Actually, some of the stories related here reminded me of how studiously people ignore each other in Japan.

It seems to me that the real key to understanding Japan is to realize that they have developed a culture that allows people to be completely alone in large groups.

I've been away for a long time, but some stories here take me right back. It's amazing how I've filtered out a lot of the negative stuff.

Greg's right about English, though. The best way to protect yourself is to pretend you don't understand any Japanese. I knew this guy, kind of a womanizer, who spoke excellent Japanese, but whenever he met an attractive woman, he would speak only English, forcing her to relate to him on his own home turf. The result, of course, was that she was completely buffaloed and unsure of herself, allowing him to dictate the situation.

Now there's a guy who understands heiho!

Margaret Lo
23rd May 2003, 20:43
Originally posted by Joshua Lerner
in China, where there has always seemed to be an imperative to absorb and assimilate foreigners...But from what I've heard from a number of people, the Chinese are more willing to socially accept foreigners who are there long-term.

Who are these Chinese people and in what alternate universe did you find them? The ones who aren't racist, xenophobic, China is first in everything, invented everything and so on?

Like to meet them someday - oh - I see they're the ones raised in Canada and the US. :D

On the flip side, Japanese or Chinese who are foreigners in another country really don't expect to be accepted even if they are there for a long time. Frankly, to me, the need for acceptance is a bit odd, like my wanting to be Japanese, and why would I want to do that?

Maybe its really unique to North Americans that a sense of identity is not tightly tied to ethnicity, so that when you go to an old culture where the 2 are linked, you get flummoxed that you are always a stranger. Really, that's more the norm in most parts of the world.

M

Joshua Lerner
24th May 2003, 00:25
Who are these Chinese people and in what alternate universe did you find them? The ones who aren't racist, xenophobic, China is first in everything, invented everything and so on?

My experience in Japan is first hand, but my experience with Chinese people (except for my in-laws and the customers and owner of the tea shop I used to work for) is all second hand. So maybe my ideas about being in China reflect the foreigners I know who were there more than anything else. Many of them are either people doing internal martial arts (and hence, like me, flaky to begin with), or in one case a member of an older generation of Americans who had a very romantic, idealized view of China. That last person in particular was a tea importer who had had a long term correspondence with John Blofeld, if that gives you any idea about the attitude I'm talking about. Think Eugen Herrigel visiting Chinese hermits.

And I would *never* make the assertion that the Chinese are not capable of racism and xenophobia. I think it's still different than in Japan, though.

The difference I'm trying to describe may also be due to the fact that the racism/xenophobia of the Japanese is thrown into such stark relief by the outer layers of politeness that they are at least capable of, even if they don't always show it with foreigners. Most of the Chinese people I dealt with at the tea shop, with a few exceptions who seemed to be caricatures of the stereotypical refined Confucian gentleman (but in a good way), were much more open with their opinions. To a fault. Especially those southerners. Man, can they swear. I can't understand Cantonese, but I don't think I need to in order to understand what they're saying. They remind me of some Osaka guys I knew, one of whom was a friend in high school.

There must be some Guangzhou/Osaka connection.

Earl Hartman
25th May 2003, 08:37
Margaret! Where ya BEEN?

DustyMars
27th May 2003, 15:03
The first time I ws in Japan was in 1959.

"When Did You Realize Just How Different Japan Can Be?"

The last time I was there was March a year ago. It was like I had never been there before!

Margaret Lo
27th May 2003, 21:12
Originally posted by Earl Hartman
Margaret! Where ya BEEN?

Hi Earl,
Long time no speak. Change of email plus ebudo fatigue kept me off for a while. After all how many times can you argue about the useful/lessness of kata? Nobody changes their mind really.

So these days I lurk about the Members Lounge looking for opportunities to parody others. ;)

Ciao
M

Earl Hartman
27th May 2003, 21:38
Yeah, I stayed away for a while too. Too many "been there, done that" threads.

Nowadays, I look in on the Koryu/Culture sections when I see posts by people I repsect and put in my two cents when I think it's worth it. Otherwise, I just lurk.

Margaret Lo
28th May 2003, 20:01
Somewhat like Yoda, I'll spring out with an admonishment or a comment. Occasionally I'll try to provoke Harvey who no doubt leads the posts now that Mark F. seems to have quieted down.

Now back to thread. To really feel like a stranger in a strange land, try listening to traditional music in the culture you're visiting. I mean the Old Stuff untouched by modern pop rythyms. One member of my household is Russian and thought she knew something of the Chinese having lived with us for 2 years. Problem is, we're westernized and listen to pop/opera/jazz. Then one day in a movie, she comes across traditional Chinese opera wailing away like an battalion of monkeys in estrus!

She's amazed not just by the music (appalled more like it :)) But the music creates a physical sensation of the alien nature of traditional Chinese culture. :eek: The music has absolutely no relationship to anything recognizeable to her and penetrates into your head/gut the way other mediums cannot.


M

Earl Hartman
28th May 2003, 20:20
I have never seen Chinese opera up close, but I have seen some televised stuff. The music, especially the "singing", sounds like 100 cats in an oil drum being roasted slowly over a fire.

I don't know how long my ears could take it, but I just LOVE the acrobatics. I think I saw part of "Journey to the West", with the Monkey King and all, and the way the actors flew around was mesmerizing, just so splendid. The leaps, somersaults, heroic poses, clashing cymbals; everything was frenetic and exciting. It was like watching gravity-defying Kabuki on speed. Absolutely amazing.

It's pretty clear where the Kabuki theater got the face painting they use; but it is also interesting to see how different similar-looking things can be. Speaking as a layperson who has only seen a litte of each, the impression I get from Chinese opera is one of light-heartedness and playfulness; the actors leap and fly around and the music is raucous and noisy, kind of like a runaway steam calliope. Kabuki, on the other hand, seems rather ponderous and earthbound, with a lot more emphasis on minimalism and minute precision (compared to Chinese opera, anyway; compared to Noh, Kabuki is positively ostentatious).

Anyway, I'd like to see more Beijing Opera. Do you know of any good tapes or DVDs?
Oh, yeah, saw a DVD of "Iron Monkey". Thought it kicked "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon's" ass, at least in the fun department. Hilarious.

Margaret Lo
28th May 2003, 21:28
I don't know anything about Beijing Opera, its too shrill for me. Southern styles are more natural in sound though still hard on western music adapted ears. I have not seen kabuki though I'd love to some time in Kyoto or Tokyo. :)

The only Chinese operas I know of are "Orchid Pavilion" and "Dream of the Red Chamber" full of cross dressers wailing over doomed lovers etc... I am told Beijing opera was once comprised of both men & women, then women were banned due to excessive prostitution. Then males took on female roles and started singing in that piercing falsetto, and prostitution resumed as before.

In the south, Shaoxin opera was all female....well we know where that led.

The opera did produce Jackie Chang and Sammo Hung though and has my gratitude. So if you love acrobatics, catch Cirque de Soleil's "Dralion" which is full of the best Chinese acrobats with their schtick cleaned of cliches and done up nicely.

M

JakobR
5th June 2003, 19:45
How about this;

This year a world championships in naginata will be held. This has been known for about two years or more. One month before the event, when all flights and hotel-rooms have been booked the Japanese delegation (including competitors, teachers, referees and representatives) decides to cancel the whole thing. The reason is the risk of getting SARS. Now, the thing is that the championships are not to be held in an hospital in Hong Kong but in California, USA!!!

hyaku
6th June 2003, 00:50
Originally posted by JakobR
How about this;

This year a world championships in naginata will be held. This has been known for about two years or more. One month before the event, when all flights and hotel-rooms have been booked the Japanese delegation (including competitors, teachers, referees and representatives) decides to cancel the whole thing. The reason is the risk of getting SARS. Now, the thing is that the championships are not to be held in an hospital in Hong Kong but in California, USA!!!

I have a trip from Japan to Korea cancelled. Two countries that did not even go on the list.

Hyakutake Colin

Adam Young
6th June 2003, 04:31
I have never seen Chinese opera up close, but I have seen some televised stuff. The music, especially the "singing", sounds like 100 cats in an oil drum being roasted slowly over a fire. Chinese opera is quite raucous at first, but you actually can develop a taste for it. I was a member of a local Beijing opera orchestra for a few years. I started to get a taste of Chinese culture and maybe practice the language a bit, but I ended up really liking it. Once you get the stories, and start to understand the role the music and the vocals play, it can be quite fun.

Course, I do prefer the opera that focuses on wu or jing characters. More action. None of the doomed lovers garbage ;)

Striking Hand
6th June 2003, 04:38
Originally posted by hyaku


I have a trip from Japan to Korea cancelled. Two countries that did not even go on the list.

Hyakutake Colin

You think that is bad.
My sog caught some tonsilities and I needed a cert from the Doc saying that nobody in my Family contracted SARS.

Weird SARS reactions (http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/waiwai/0305/0522sars.html)

Read those stories, should I laugh or should I cry.