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bruceb
23rd May 2003, 16:45
Lately, I have been thinking about the healing necklace my buddy made for me. He makes them for the Healing Lodge on the reservation, and each one is attuned to the needs of each person.

Strange as it may sound, each person has different needs,and the accompanying stones, bones, materials used to make the necklace, bracelet, or other worn items should mean something. That is, each item is attuned to generate a resonse from the body, and each item, much like a circuit in an electrical application, has a purpose to work together to produce a set of frequencys that help the body attune to nature.

Hell, the nature of any doctor is to assist the person needing aid or healing is to neutralize an injury or illness to the extent that the human body will heal itself. Nearly every treatment for the human body is to accomplish this goal of reaching a point where the body will heal itself, so .... if this is true .... wouldn't the vibrations of certain jewelry be a healing tool? Stimulation no less than, or more than, the actual medical professions of massage therapy, pschoanalysis, western medicine, or something as simple as doing something that is considered "healthy"?

I don't know, but with all the talk about attitude, or feeling good to get better, having items around you that make you feel better, maybe there is something to vibrations or rocks, trees, and bones?

joe yang
23rd May 2003, 19:48
Welcome back Bruce. I missed you. How have you been? Now quit fooling around and come out swinging. ;)

bruceb
23rd May 2003, 20:42
"Would you like to swing on a star ...

Carry moonbeans home in a jar...

Or be better off than you are .."

Oops? Did you say swinging or singing?

elder999
23rd May 2003, 21:07
Originally posted by bruceb
Lately, I have been thinking about the healing necklace my buddy made for me. He makes them for the Healing Lodge on the reservation, and each one is attuned to the needs of each person.

Which reservation? Attuned how?



Strange as it may sound, each person has different needs,and the accompanying stones, bones, materials used to make the necklace, bracelet, or other worn items should mean something. That is, each item is attuned to generate a resonse from the body, and each item, much like a circuit in an electrical application, has a purpose to work together to produce a set of frequencys that help the body attune to nature.


Which range of frequencies? Use your necklace as an example: which stones to which frequencies, etc.



Hell, the nature of any doctor is to assist the person needing aid or healing is to neutralize an injury or illness to the extent that the human body will heal itself. Nearly every treatment for the human body is to accomplish this goal of reaching a point where the body will heal itself, so .... if this is true .... wouldn't the vibrations of certain jewelry be a healing tool? Stimulation no less than, or more than, the actual medical professions of massage therapy, pschoanalysis, western medicine, or something as simple as doing something that is considered "healthy"?

I don't know, but with all the talk about attitude, or feeling good to get better, having items around you that make you feel better, maybe there is something to vibrations or rocks, trees, and bones?

I'm reminded of a story told by a friend, who teaches Mantak Chia's versions of chigung. He related the story of the "eight healing sounds," where one directs "energy" to various parts of the body, posed in various postures, and making corresponding sounds, and how, months after teaching them to her, a somewhat elderly, ailing woman came back and expressed joy at her extremely evident (according to my friend) increase in health and vitality, and how she went on to describe each sound, posture and correpsonding organ she had done and how she had them all wrong! They were completely mixed up, and not corresponding at all.

This stuff, like ki, or chi, or the person roused from unconsciousness by music, or healed by a painting or idol or icon, or laying on of hands, or prayer, works largely-I believe-because of the power of the imagination and the intention of the person who is healed.

True healing comes from within.

..within you-NOT the rocks, or bones, or whatever.

From an Indian standpoint, I would like to know which reservation, and what "healing lodge,"but if the necklace makes you feel better, it really doesn't matter.

bruceb
23rd May 2003, 23:53
If you are serious ... send me a PM Aaron.

This is not for public consumption. I just came back from Warren County, Pa ... where a number of my ancestors and cousins have intermarried and had children within the nation.

I thought people would think about quartz crystals, or even how people divine water with sticks ... I didn't think a consideration of rocks, trees, and bones be any more than an entertaining thread for unbelievers, and a diversion that might shed some insight on on the power of psychology for someones belief of benefits from rocks, trees and stones?

Bruce Mitchell
24th May 2003, 04:00
not in forums ..

Then why post this thread in a public venue?

Steve Williams
24th May 2003, 08:15
Originally posted by bruceb
where a number of my ancestors and cousins have intermarried and had children......


HMMM that sounds like a "can-o-worms" being opened..... ;)

bruceb
24th May 2003, 14:14
Why post on this thread?

Budo and the body, not who are your ancestors, is it?

Specific to the subject of the thread, the ability to sense or not to sense the vibrations from objects is supposedly a degree of sensitivity for each person. Some people need to be hit with a two by four, and others can hear or feel a pin drop in the other room, in either case, Budo and the body is about getting in tune with not only the physical training and regimens of a martial art, but it is also about tuning in to your environment and surrounding yourself with items that attune to your personal needs.

If we need to go into '" your ancestry, my ancestry " then let's start another category, or get on over to one of the ancestry websites.

There must be something to vibrations of Rocks, Trees, and Bones because people seem to want to go to the country to relax, sit under a tree to feel better, or have certain feelings about disturbing the dead in cemetarys, eh? Think about the number of ceremonys we have for both the living and the dead, and why the psyche of humanity needs these ceremonys to qualm the fears, or dread, some people get from traveling to certain pieces of land? Spooky, isn't it?

Is it self induced?

Or .... is there something to it? We know that quartz crystals vibrate with electricity, and we know that prism effects occur when light is bent from passing through them, what other things occur from them? Are there little signals, vibrations that send messages which can be felt or heard if we are quiet or still to listen to them?

In all the discussions about chi/ki the determination that the human body has or does generate an electrical current .... is that what activates the vibrations of certain stones or jewelry in certain people?

So ...

If you want to talk ancestry, catch me in one of the other websites.

There is more than enough subject matter to talk about for vibrations or rocks, trees, and bones in relation to budo and the body.

Steve Williams
25th May 2003, 19:20
BruceB..... what are you on??


You start the thread about a "healing necklace" and "vibrations" from the said necklace (or stones in that necklace).

Someone has a gentle "joke" with you, and you counter with a totally off-topic song lyric..... Ok that may have been a joke as well, on your part.


You are asked a few questions which relate directly to your first statement/question.

You flatly refuse to comment on/answer these questions.


I make a "joke" about something you say (check the ;) smilie...... that refers to it being a comical aside, and not a serious statement)

You then talk about this "not being about ancestors".... and it is not.... THAT WAS A HUMOUROUS ASIDE.


You then talk more about these vibrations.



Now if you want to keep things "thread specific" then fine, but "practice what you preach" and if someone asks something directly related to something you have said, then it a cop-out to say "it is not for public comsumption".

If you write something here then you must expect qquestions related to it, after all you have been here long enough.

bruceb
26th May 2003, 14:45
Well, Steve.

It would seem that in the Budo and the Body, we are referencing things that affect the body, or reletive to budo, things that affect the body.

IF the curiosity of who Bruce Baker is too much for you, go to ancestry .com, or Roots.com and perform a search ... the information will come up. At least, what is publically available.

Some of the best martial teachers eventually refer to getting a sense of vibration from things in their environment, or at least becoming attuned to feel the sensory stimuli of ones environment.

Mind over matter? If you don't think about it, it doesn't matter, but if you think about it it does matter? Maybe we are all programed to resist certain types of vibrations?

We spend a lifetime in becoming attuned to the signals our body send out and interpreting them, so maybe, it does take longer to become attuned to them, such as, an illness or middleage is where they become strong enough to interpret? I don't know. This is just speculation based upon my own illness, and observation over my own lifetime, so it is in no way scientific.

On the other hand, consider the mental training we all undertake to be part of society. Isn't that also a lifetime of interpreting what behavior is socially acceptable and becoming attuned to the "norms" of that society? We are taught to ignor those vibrations, those signals that are superfluous to our daily routine and become attuned to the behavior of that society. Mind over matter, isn't it?

Well, what if .... we were to let down the protective walls, that we have built up in a lifetime, and let those signals come in? Signs of insanity, you might ask? Maybe. Maybe those constant signals are a means to drive you insane if they are not filtered, or, at least, blocked out from time to time to create some form of restful silence.

Consider ..... I have a growing constant noise in my head that is always with me, for the last forty years, and it has gotten louder, and louder. The barrier of silence is broken, and other means of mental discipline must be learned to understand how to prevent insanity. This is basically, a higher level of mental discipline to understand and measure the signs of instability, and take measures to that 'no longer tax the mind' to block these signals, but to let them pass through, much like trying to concentrate on conversation from a group of people in a crowded noisy room. There are hundreds of people talking, enough noise to make hearing conversations difficult, but one is still able to concentrate on conversation at hand without being distracted by the rest of the conversation in the room. One is aware of the noises in the room, but they are superfluous, none the less.

The vibrations of the world around you are like the hundreds of conversations in a room, you can ignore them and concentrate on your group, or you can learn to pick up on them.

It just so happens, that in testing this theory of having a healing necklace that attunes itself to help my body overcome some of my ailments, or to help that body become attuned to getting better, seems to help. Maybe it is wishful thinking, and maybe it is mind over matter, but ..... if it was for certain, I wouldn't have to bring it out for question in a forum, would I?

So, Steve, and anyone else who wants to get in on this subject? Ideas, opinions, or even speculation might lead to some interesting answers, eh?

bruceb
26th May 2003, 14:51
Anyone can ask questions, but that doesn't mean an answer will be forthcoming, or that one is warranted.

Does one have to answer all questions?

Well .... you can ask....

Prince Loeffler
26th May 2003, 17:41
Hey Baker !

Trying to read your response to Steve Williams is like going 15 rounder with Tito Ortiz with both hands tied behind my back........

In english it means it hurts !....Oh by the way Baker...Aw, .Never mind !

:D

bruceb
26th May 2003, 19:54
Hey P.L.

Next time read it drunk.

It won't hurt as much, and you might actually understand it.

In any case, it will be a better excuse than to claim it makes your head hurt. Not as lame as claiming brain pain from trying to read something that makes you think.

Of course, you could find a nice place under a tree and enjoy the afternoon and see what vibrations you and your woman can create?

That should be simple enuf for you, P.L.

Prince Loeffler
26th May 2003, 20:44
Baker ! Funniest thing you ever said ! :D You should be proud ! :D and oh ! I don't drink ;)

Steve Williams
26th May 2003, 22:54
So Bruce, you should read it drunk, because you wrote it while drunk?? (that would make more sense)



And the "constant noise in my head" that you refer to...... have you ever heard of tinitus (sp?)??
Or perhaps you are just CRAZY ;)

bruceb
27th May 2003, 17:36
The tinitus is so loud I can't read what you wrote, Steve.

Next time make it larger, and in bold letters .... makes it easier to hear.

elder999
28th May 2003, 18:43
Oooh…where to start?


Lately, I have been thinking about the healing necklace my buddy made for me. He makes them for the Healing Lodge on the reservation, and each one is attuned to the needs of each person.

Strange as it may sound, each person has different needs,and the accompanying stones, bones, materials used to make the necklace, bracelet, or other worn items should mean something. That is, each item is attuned to generate a resonse from the body, and each item, much like a circuit in an electrical application, has a purpose to work together to produce a set of frequencys that help the body attune to nature.

Firstly, I have to say as an engineer and someone who is considered by some to be “deeply spiritual,” it makes me totally crazy when people try to utilize scientific terms to explain “spiritual,” and intangible matters. While I don’t believe the two to be mutually exclusive, people invariably use words like “frequency” and “attune” in a completely incorrect, off the track way that only serves to alienate them and make the whole thing seem nonsensical; so it’s ok that you don’t answer the question “which frequency?” or the “..attuned how” ones because there is no answer to those questions, is there? At least, not one that will satisfy the engineer, and that’s your second problem.

I feel great when I wear blue. Ditto purple and black. I occasionally wear pink or red, and I don’t wear green, except for camouflage. What I wear and don’t wear is pretty much predicated by what makes me feel good.How does it make me feel good? Do I have anaffinityfor the blue spectrum? Am I attunedto the violet wavelength? Does it matter? Those colors make me feel good because I say so, mostly, and if you believe anything else then your missing the most valuable point about these sorts of things-your necklace included.

By your reference to “the nations” and Warren, PA., I can infer that you are speaking of the Seneca of the Allegany Reservation. I know a little about the spiritual practices of the Iroquois and other Algonquian tribes; they are dependent upon dream work and self-reliance, and, in the realm of healing, good old fashioned medicine. One might be better served making a necklace like yours for oneself. Spiritually, just how can your friend attune these things to you? To himself perhaps, but not to you-the requirements for such a thing go well beyond “Here, I made this necklace for you.” He could well make such an object for specific ailments or specific goals but not for you, and how well such a thing works or doesn’t work depends upon you, sort of like the way I feel dressed in black.

I participate in various “Native American” ceremonies, and I’ve learned a few things. One of them is that stuff like this being put out like this really offends some Natives-sometimes rightly. Another is best illustrated by a story. An elder held up an implement used during a ceremony and asked “What makes this sacred?” After receiving various answers that didn’t satisfy him he replied, “No. It’s sacred becauseI make it sacred.”

Joseph Svinth
29th May 2003, 02:26
Nothing wrong with reconstructions, mind you, but as in martial arts, the process leaves lots of room for anachronism and error. I mention this because among the Woodland Indians, which includes the Iroquois, the most popular single religion from the 1600s to the 1900s was probably Roman Catholicism. Indeed, the fate worse than death that awaited Puritan prisoners of the Abenaki was conversion to Papism. In addition, the pioneer of Catholicism among the Plains Indians (decades before Father de Smet) was Iroquois, and there's even (or soon to be) an Iroquois saint.

elder999
29th May 2003, 02:46
Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
Nothing wrong with reconstructions, mind you, but as in martial arts, the process leaves lots of room for anachronism and error. I mention this because among the Woodland Indians, which includes the Iroquois, the most popular single religion from the 1600s to the 1900s was probably Roman Catholicism. Indeed, the fate worse than death that awaited Puritan prisoners of the Abenaki was conversion to Papism. In addition, the pioneer of Catholicism among the Plains Indians (decades before Father de Smet) was Iroquois, and there's even (or soon to be) an Iroquois saint.

While we can always appreciate your historical perspective, Joe, the fact is that for a large number of Woodland Indians, including the Iroquois, old ways did not die out.

bruceb
29th May 2003, 03:40
My father, his reletives, and most of his cronys, some of them being Ironworkers, grew up on beer, goodtimes, and socialiality in the bar, and many of our cousins were married to Senaca, and other members of Six Nations Tribe, sometimes called Iroquois, a French derivation that seems to have stuck, but until a few years ago, when I started ancestry, I didn't know anything about that world. I still don't.

Purely on my own, over the past thirty odd years, I have investigated a number of religions, meditation practices, martial arts adaptations of those practices and teachings, which, in a way, was an indirect search for the same teachings taught by the inner circle of Medicine lodge. It is a much psychology, as it is a measurement of healing by western standards.

There are, as noted, present practices that are still practiced, and not all of them are open to public eyes, even if they are defined in a number of books and can be found if you do a bit of research. The question is, are the sense of vibrations from electrical stimulation from the human body a valid examination of this subject? Can the human body act like an interpretor, or a measuring device to sense these vibrations, or is it just wishful thinking?

Some people don't believe it, and in the modern examination of healing, the proper outlook is sometimes as effective as a sugar pill, or placebo. The placement of a placebo being as effective as a drug indicates to me that ones outlook, or mindset, is just as effective as having the physical effect for physical or drug treatments in western medicine.

My outlook, is not to believe in what people tell me, purely on spectulation, but to find solid facts and evidence to back up those words, or at least examine how it works, its effects, and if it is what I want. If it doesn't have the desired effect, then get rid of it. Believe in what works, but don't read anything into it.

I see, too much is read into statements about medicine lodge, and native americans .... stop it. Most Native Americans don't read that much into it. Why should you or I? Fact is, we shouldn't. It is no more mystical putting on socks and shoes to go outside, or taking an aspirin for a headache.

You are tired, you sleep. You are hungry,. you eat. You are sick, you take medicine and rest. No big deal.

I don't think it is a big deal, no more than sitting outside watching the day go by, sipping your favorite beverage, reading a book.

If you leave the house without the basics, watch/wallet/ keys, you will miss appointments if you don't kow what time it is, or having money or credit cards or I.D. because you don't have your wallet, or not be able to get into your car or house,which is not the worst of worlds, but I think it is like being in the supermarket and having a feeling you have forgotten something? Well, maybe that is what this whole thing of Vibrations is about. It is the difference between surely getting your list completed for shopping, or wondering what the item was you forgot to buy?

If you can get behind that feeling for good vibrations for healing, and no vibrations but just a good feeling, that is kind of where I was going with this. They are the same thing.

What I was wondering about, was .... does the electrical current of the human body respond to the placement of jewelry on the skin, and do the combination of certain rocks, trees, and bones when strung into jewelry have any effect upon physical or mental attitude to improve health?

If you guys want to sidebar into the Native American Healing lodges, then spend a couple of years and get inside that world ... but I think you will be surprised how down to earth most of these people are, even though they teach the old ways.

Untl the Europeans began to write about these cultures, everything was verbally recorded, and verbally taught from generation to generation, why should it be any different today?

I am as much an outsider and any of you, so I don't take the vibrations that seriously, but I do see an improvement from wearing this pieces of rocks, trees, and bones.

What do you think? Is there a more scientific explantion for the human body's response to certain types of jewelry touching the skin, or not?

elder999
29th May 2003, 14:01
What I was wondering about, was .... does the electrical current of the human body respond to the placement of jewelry on the skin, and do the combination of certain rocks, trees, and bones when strung into jewelry have any effect upon physical or mental attitude to improve health?

No to your first question and yes to your second.


What do you think? Is there a more scientific explantion for the human body's response to certain types of jewelry touching the skin, or not?

DOES IT MATTER?

Joseph Svinth
30th May 2003, 06:20
It gives me no right to say anything but my opinion, but FWIW, my father is an enrolled member, my great-aunt is a former tribal vice-chair, and family friends and neighbors include assorted Alaska, California, and Washington Indians.

Anyway, among that small statistical sample of enrolled members, my experience is that geography and family have greater symbolic value than do any rituals, icons, or artifacts. To give an example, if three generations of your relatives weren't born within sight of the Mountain, then you are still (and will always be) a newbie, no matter if you have lived here 50 years. On the other hand, if you're a member of the third or fourth generation born in sight of Rainier, then who cares if you're ethnically Japanese? Let's sit here and look at The Mountain and talk story about the old days, when people still got salmon from the river instead of Safeway.

Joseph Svinth
30th May 2003, 06:36
One other thing. The Abenaki were not part of the Confederation. Consequently, they were hammered between the Puritans on one side and the Mohawks on the other. The Jesuits tried, in their way, to protect the Abenaki, and the interference only outraged the Puritans and Mohawks more. Thus, after the Revolutionary War, there weren't many Abenaki left.

Which brings me to my point -- specifically which Woodland Indian religion (and religious practice) are we speaking of? The Lakota, pre-1600? The Abenaki? The Mohawk? The Huron? The Onandaga? Hundreds of languages, hundreds of cultures, and while they shared lifestyles, that doesn't mean that they shared cosmologies.

Yet in the modern archetype, these things are mixed and matched, apparently at random. Put another way, mixed martial art vs. koryu. As long as people admit that what they're doing is modern syncretic, great, but as soon as they start saying that they're traditional, then they had better start toting out the genealogies.

bruceb
1st June 2003, 14:21
Yeah, it does matter.

If something does what it is supposed to do, serving the purpose it was designed to serve, it certainly does matter.

Music is a source of vibrations, isn't it? Don't certain types of music soothe and calm the mental and physical state of ones body? If we take the vibrations of rocks, trees, and bones in the same context as music, it certainly does matter.

The right vibrations are beneficial, and the wrong vibrations are either neutral, or deleterious to ones health.

The very essence of surrounding yourself with items that make you feel comfortable, or are from your life, are the attempt to alter your surroundings with things that make you comfortable, or give you a feeling of ease .... vibrations not counter to the feeling of being home.

Take away the sounds, the vibrations of life, and there is a terrible erie silence that some people describe as deafening.

The sensitivity to being able to sense these vibrations is not the same for everyone, as each of us learns to block out, or deaden, our reception of these signals so they don't drive us absolutely insane, like thousands of radios all tuned to different stations at the same time. That would be awefully distracting, eh?

Yeah, it does matter. It matters just as much as if you were poisoning yourself from living in a poisonous environment, or if you took medicine in the right or wrong way, such as the right amount at the right time creating the proper clinical results.

It matters to the point that it may be like tuning into a radio station in that each human being has different abilities to tune into different stations ... what works to heal me may do nothing for you.

I guess, I have arrived at the crux of medicinal studies? Trying to find a common ground for each cure to work on all human beings, but the reality is .... each cure does not work for all human beings in the same exact manner. We taylor the generalities to fit each case subject.

Western Medicine depends upon scientific data, while eastern medicine uses not only science, such as herbs and medicinal cures, but what might be termed an interpretation of vibrations from the human condition, also.

Maybe in the world of the Rat Race it doesn't matter, as ones attention is focused on the material goals in life, but if you reach that point where you have enough of what you want, life becomes more comfortable, and you are no longer driven by overwhelming sexual or emotional urges ..... you might get in tune, feel some of the vibrations that are all around you.

Maybe get them old bones feeling good, skip a rock across the water, or sit and look at the billions of years cut into a mountain, or even ... enjoy the shade and smell the fresh air of few trees.

Ya never know until you stop enjoy the day what you will find.