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sepai 85
23rd May 2003, 21:49
Great great great drink if you can keep it in your system long enough to enjoy it. Does anyone have any favorite Japanese drinks or foods for that matter

eg. sake and sushi

Jake McKee
26th May 2003, 07:49
Sake and anything!

The question is hot or cold sake?

Personally I prefer reishu (cold sake).

Jake McKee
www.budovideos.com

Chrono
27th May 2003, 04:53
I kind of like my sake cold, although I've only had it once, and I don't quite remember what it tastes like.

sepai 85
27th May 2003, 12:44
Hai !

reishu itchi ban

gambate

yours in shugyo

Andy Watson
28th May 2003, 11:56
I read in a Japanese cookbook that one shouldn't consume sake if you were eating a rice dish (rice and rice, you know).

I love hot sake with sashimi or at any izakaya when it's cold, wet and windy outside and they bring in a grilled salted salmon's head.

Wow, I'm feeling all nostalgic.

Sniff.

P Goldsbury
28th May 2003, 12:58
Andy,

Have you ever eaten Ikezukuri, best with hon-dai? Here in Hiroshima we are in the middle of the Inland Sea and there is still plenty of freshly caught fish to eat. I have fond memories of a recreation outing in our department. We took a boat to a small island and spent three hours consuming a huge meal of seafood at a nonedescript local restaurant, where ikezukuri featured prominently. The point is that you pour hot nihonshu into the mouth of the fish and the tail begins to flap wildly. Of course, we started with beer and then moved on very quickly to various kinds of excellent locally brewed sake. (I think this was actually supposed to be a kenshuukai 'study meeting'. Of course, it was wildly successful.) But the sake-pouring stopped just before 'gohan', or 'shokuji', when tea was served. But it resumed immediately afterwards and continued until we had to call it a day and stagger back to the boat.

Actually, during my time here, Hiroshima University has followed established precedent and the entire campus has moved to a 'country' setting, well outside Hiroshima City, and right in the midst of an area noted for its water and rice, thus for its sake. There are some very good local brews here, but since we are in Japan's 'uragawa', they are not well known nationally.

Best regards,

Andy Watson
28th May 2003, 13:12
Peter

You are killing me with envy here. You are very lucky to live in such a wonderful peaceful place. I spent two years living in Chiba and so only had limited visits to Kyushu. I went to Nagasaki once on a business trip and spent about a month down in the South in Kagoshima towards the end which was wonderful.

Strangely enough, I know about the sake in fishes mouth thing from another different experience. I'm sure you have had the dish when they skewer a live fish, cut off it's sides and serve the whole thing on a plate. There the fish sits watching you with its beady eyes while you tuck into his love handles. Well, I had a thing about eating live animals and so I would wait until my fish had stopped twitching before I would eat it, much to the amusement of my Japanese colleagues and friends. In order to speed up the this process I once tried pouring sake into it's mouth to see if it would kill it quicker. Sure enough, it gave a couple of frantic jerks and then stopped twitching. I am sure if it didn't have a skewer through its body it would have flapped its tail. I live with the mindset that although I killed a living thing, at least it died happy.

I can't remember having ikezukuri and I can't find it's meaning in any of the dictionaries I have available on the PC (at the office at the moment so I can't look in the paper ones). From it's name I take it it is a fresh water fish. Do you know it's name in English?

On the subject of sake I do remember suffering from quite prominent hangovers from the long and drawn out drinking sessionns in Japan. One night though, my friend took me to an aquaintance's organic restaurant in Kanda, Tokyo. It was an ash pit style, yakitori type place and the beer and sake they served was also organic of course. Anyway, after getting completely blotto I woke up next morning without an ince of a hangover. A clear indication that it's all about chemicals.

Good to read your experiences Peter. Keep 'em coming.

Regards

Earl Hartman
28th May 2003, 20:36
Ahhh, yes. The quaint Japanese custom of eating things whose spirits have not completely crossed Sanzu no Kawa. I guess the fact that the food is still struggling as it goes down must make it taste better. "Would I like to eat the fish while it is still gasping for breath? No, I don't think so. What? Oh, yes, I quite realize that waiting for my food to die before I eat it will make it impossible for me to truly understand the true flavor of Japan. Not to be rude, but I can live with that."

I know I'll get flayed for saying this, but I think sake is absolutely vile stuff. This may have something to do with how utterly disgusting people smell when they're drunk on the stuff; or maybe it has to do with all the times I was forced to drink it by scowling, violent kendo senpai who owned my pathetic gaijin ass and who would remember how I had disrespected their proffered sake at practice the next day. Anyhow, bleccchhh.

The only thing worse is shochu.

Good Japanese beer, OTOH, (and by that I mean Kirin and Ebisu) is much better than most of the crap that passes for beer in the US. However, the Japanese beer you get in the US must be made for US tastes, because it is nowhere near as good as I remember.

Andy: ikezukuri means to fillet a fish and prepare it to be eaten while it is still alive. As I understand it, the chef takes a live fish, and instead of killing it by, say, bonking it on the head or severing the spinal column, he simply starts skinning and filleting the fish as is. Then, the filleted and sliced meat is arranged back on the skeleton (the head having been left in place), which has been arranged in an artful fashion, the head often being placed somewhat perpendicular to the vessel in which the fish is served (often a big wooden boat). This way, while the diners are eating, they are treated to the spectacle of the mouth and gills still working and the tail still quivering and flapping (discreetly, of course). Often, the entire fish will spasm and quiver, which usually causes the diners to remark approvingly on how fresh the sashimi is.

Personally, I could never get into it.

Earl Hartman
28th May 2003, 21:07
Actually, correction: ikezukuri can refer to eating anything while it is stll alive, I think. You can have ikezukuri shrimp or other small fish, which is, I think, referred to as odori-gui, or "dancing eating(food)", in reference to the wriggling of the shrimp/fish as you eat it.

sepai 85
29th May 2003, 00:58
You people are very lucky I think that if I had the $ to go to Japan then I would be there. It sounds like a great place hope to visit and train one day (in Okinawa preferably)

yours in shugyo

Andy Watson
29th May 2003, 11:18
Earl

I get it. And I've had it. Yes, ikezukuri is a truly vile way to dine. If they just showed you the living fish before they killed it, I would believe it was extremely fresh. They could even provide the fish's credentials to prove it was the wriggling one they just fished out the tank. Aah, grated daikon stained with fish blood - what a treat.

I know what you mean about shochu, I'm not a great lover of it myself except in one way. My original iai teacher used to take me to this tiny soba restaurant in the suburbs of Chiba city where they used to make the noodles on the premises. He used to drink shochu mixed with the soba-yu (the hot milky water produced from boiling soba) and it deliscious. Whenever I mention this quite rare preference to other Japanese they are taken aback with surprise. "What? A gaijin knowing about these things? And he can sing "Shimauta"??? Sugoiiii!!!!"

Tee hee

Ben - Tourism in Japan is getting cheaper and cheaper as the Japanese tourist agencies are getting more desperate to increase tourists to Japan. Now that the earthquake has occurred, scan the net for cheap deals there. You'll be glad you saved your pennies.

sepai 85
29th May 2003, 12:11
excellent !

P Goldsbury
29th May 2003, 12:24
Oh, come now you guys.

‹½‚É“ü‚ê‚΋½‚É?]‚¦?B

Best,

P Goldsbury
29th May 2003, 12:36
Originally posted by Earl Hartman


Good Japanese beer, OTOH, (and by that I mean Kirin and Ebisu) is much better than most of the crap that passes for beer in the US. However, the Japanese beer you get in the US must be made for US tastes, because it is nowhere near as good as I remember.

Earl,

Have you ever drunk a beer made by Asahi with the name of "Fujii-san"? It is a 'premium' beer, like Ebisu and Kirin's "Beeru Shokunin", but even better. I have trained all my local beer shops to stock it, for I believe I am the main customer...

I have vivid memories of drinking US beer when I was a student at Harvard. Better memories were of (excessively) drinking Molson Export when I stayed with friends in Ottawa (and driving over to Hull to replenish supplies, after the Ontario shops closed at 2 am).

Best,

Peter G.

Earl Hartman
29th May 2003, 18:54
Professor Goldsbury:

My computer is monolingual, so I can't read your second-to-last post.

There are some good micro brewery beers in the US; one of my favorites is Anchor Steam, a local San Francisco beer. However, I really like Pilsner Urquell, the original Pilsner from Pilsen in the Czech Republic. If I ever get to Europe, Prague is way up near the top of my list.

I never liked Asahi or Sapporo; too "dry" or whatever they call it. But I will check out the Fujii-san stuff you talk about the next chance I get.

There is a little hole-in-the-wall sushi place near the kyudo equipment store I patronize when I go to Tokyo. He has a fish tank there, and so his aji tataki is really superb; perfectly fresh and crunchy. The best part, though, is that after you have eaten the tataki he makes misoshiru out of the head and bones of the fish: the bones are simmered gently in water so it makes its own dashi, then just add miso and mitsuba. Absolutely the best misoshiru you can get anywhere. You can also do the same with any kind of karei (sole). Just make sure you use the bones. The meat by itself will not give you a good dashi.

P Goldsbury
30th May 2003, 14:22
Originally posted by Earl Hartman

My computer is monolingual, so I can't read your second-to-last post.
PAG. Have you never thought of obtaining Japanese-readable software? The good thing about E-Budo is that its operating software allows for Japanese. The phrase I wrote in my earlier post was: Gou ni ireba, gou ni shitagae.

I never liked Asahi or Sapporo; too "dry" or whatever they call it. But I will check out the Fujii-san stuff you talk about the next chance I get.
PAG. 'Fujii-san' is a 'premium' beer, made in small quantities and not generally available. The Kirin version is 'Beeru Shokunin' which, to me, tastes more on the bitter side.

There is a little hole-in-the-wall sushi place near the kyudo equipment store I patronize when I go to Tokyo. He has a fish tank there, and so his aji tataki is really superb; perfectly fresh and crunchy. The best part, though, is that after you have eaten the tataki he makes misoshiru out of the head and bones of the fish: the bones are simmered gently in water so it makes its own dashi, then just add miso and mitsuba. Absolutely the best misoshiru you can get anywhere. You can also do the same with any kind of karei (sole). Just make sure you use the bones. The meat by itself will not give you a good dashi.
PAG. Yes, indeed. I would think that this is a regular practice in those restaurants that specialize in sashimi/ikezukuri dishes. In Hiroshima there are loads of little restaurants, all producing similar dishes, but with subtle variations as to preparation and flavour. I remember going on a trip with a friend of mine to gather 'sansai' in the Geihoku region near here. We were the only foreigners and were therefore of some interest (how on earth could foreigners know about sansai ryori?). The members were generally elderly Japanese, members of a food study group, who knew a thing or two about their food culture. The high point of the trip was the meal afterwards, served in the hall of a local shrine. Of course sansai figured prominently, but there was sashimi and the wonderful misoshiru served afterwards.

The friend actually wrote a book, called "A Dictionary of Japanese Food". His name is Richard Hosking and the book is published by Tuttle. Have you come across it?

Best,

Peter Goldsbury

Andy Watson
30th May 2003, 14:43
Sansai udon in Kanazawa opposite Kenrokuen. How fantastic - and healthy.

I must say that I love Japanese beer in Japan but people are right about it being different abroad - it just doesn't taste the same. Perhaps it's because I'm not as dehydrated as I was during a Tokyo summer running from one air-conditioned building to the next before the bucket of wet heat hit me.

Andy Watson
30th May 2003, 14:51
On the subject of the aforementioned, before I left the shores of England for my sabatical to Japan, people bought me some rather odd going away gifts.

Among them was no shortage of bottles of sake and chopsticks!!!

Duh!!!

It's like giving someone tea bags when the're coming to England.

Earl Hartman
30th May 2003, 21:42
P. Goldsbury:

The sansai-gathering trip sounds like fun. Yes, as gaijin, I expect you and your friend caused quite a stir. The meal sounds delicious. Re: beer, it sounds like I would like "Beer Shokunin" better anyway, since I am a fan of the bitter.

Andy:

Did you live in Kanazawa? That's pretty much my "home town" in Japan; I lived there for 3.5 years and my wife is from there.

I'm not sure if it is still possible to do this, but my father-in-law, when he was still alive, would gather wild udo on the slopes of Utatsuyama in Kanazawa. One of my absolute favorite dishes is thinly sliced raw udo in a sumiso dressing. Fresh, crunchy, and invigorating, and a taste you absolutely can't get outside of Japan, I would imagine.

When you were in Kanazawa, did you ever have any of the local specialties? Two of my favorites are hanakurumi (walnuts simmered in sweet malted rice syrup, absolutely the BEST sweet to have with tea) and gori no kara-age (deep fried tiny river fish, about the size of minnows). You can also get the gori as tsukudani.

Another good Kanazawa meibutsu is wakasagi no tusukudani (there's probably a local name for it that escapes me), small smelt that are simmered in soy sauce and the local malted rice syrup, called ame. The fish are broiled first and then simmered; they come out having a beautiful deep-golden, burnished sheen. If you use the ame in place of sugar in almost any recipe that calls for it, such as teriyaki or nimono, it's absolutely amazing how much better it tastes.

Andy Watson
2nd June 2003, 10:38
Earl

I spent the first month of my life in Japan in Kanazawa on a homestay programme with an institute called Eurocenter (behind Honda museum opposite Kenrokuen) which was absolutely wonderful.

This was about 9 years ago so the memories are slightly faded but the two things of foodstuff which do stick in my head are the hanamidango (sweet sticky balls of rice goo) and hotaruika, neither of which I was a great fan.

I loved sansai udon and remember that the okonimiyaki in Ishikawa was very good.

Rachel
2nd June 2003, 13:44
>There is a little hole-in-the-wall sushi place near the kyudo equipment store I patronize when I go to Tokyo. He has a fish tank there, and so his aji tataki is really superb; perfectly fresh and crunchy. The best part, though, is that after you have eaten the tataki he makes misoshiru out of the head and bones of the fish: the bones are simmered gently in water so it makes its own dashi, then just add miso and mitsuba. Absolutely the best misoshiru you can get anywhere

I know this place !!! This is bringing back memories... you're right its the BEST DAMN misoshiru.... and you're right, his own 'dashi' makes it totally unique, I never tasted any thing like it... :) this was of course 2 years ago, so I forgot the name... please remind me.

Rachel HM

Andy Watson
2nd June 2003, 15:45
...on your first posting.

Welcome to the forum.

Who are you anyway?

Rachel
3rd June 2003, 10:03
For those you not in the know - Andy Watson is my sempai:D wot a cheek eh ?!

Rachel HM

Dave Lowry
3rd June 2003, 16:00
A point of clarification on the subject of odori-gui, or “dancing mouth.” Not any or all small fish that can fit into one’s mouth whole and still wriggling are suitable for odori-gui. The custom began in Fukuoka, down in Kyushu and it was, and still properly is, confined to shirouo, commonly translated as “ice goby” but which all us readers here, graduates of sixth form Latin of course, would recognise as Leucopsarion petersi. Minnow-size and transparent, hence the name. For some reason, almost instantly after death, the quality of the shirouo starts going down faster than Monica in the Oval Office. They taste best while still alive. That’s the reason they are consumed so, and not to provide an opportunity to exhibit culinary machismo.

Deal is, shirouo are often confused with shirauo, Salangichthys microdon, often poorly translated as “whitebait.” (Which leads to further problems since this fish is in no way related to the whitebait enjoyed by our dentitionaly challenged cousins in England.) Even many, if not most Japanese are confused or insensible about this distinction, and not infrequently, you will find shirauo being unwittingly passed off as odori-gui nowadays. Shirauo are perfectly good as sushi, usually as a topping for gunkan-maki, with a dab of grated ginger or a sprinkle of chopped asatsuki. But they are not nearly so tasty in a, shall we say, pre-moribund state as is the shirouo.

All of which affords the non-Japanese one of those relished, not-to-be-missed opportunities to shove into the face of the arrogant, bigoted Nihon-jin one might encounter, a heapin’ helpin’ of his own culture of which he is ignorant.
“Oh, you wish me to try the odori-gui, eh? In fondest hopes I shall be replused, unable to appreciate the finer points of your cusine, no doubt. Well, by all means, let’s bottoms up. But first, is this shirouo we’re talking about? Or shirauo you’re trying to serve me? Nanda! You don’t know the difference? How could a real Japanese not know the difference?”
One can continue on in this vein, excoriating the bully over his lack of knowledge about his own culinary heritage, until the fish in question has passed on and floats lifelessly, rendering the entire enterprise moot.

Cordially,

Earl Hartman
3rd June 2003, 19:09
Not to gainsay Professor Lowry, who has obviously gone to great lengths to research the Latin names of the fish in question, but I have been informed that "odori-gui" (why "dancing mouth", BTW? "Gui" does not man mouth, AFAIK, but is a somewhat vulgar form of the verb "to eat") is also used to refer to eating shrimp which are shelled and deveined at the speed of light and served immediately so the diner can savor them while they're still twitching.

Ah, of course. Those Japanese who told me this must have been those ignorant clowns of which Professor Lowry speaks so eloquently.

Well, perhaps he is right. I don't intend to ever touch the stuff, so it's all the same to me.

sepai 85
3rd June 2003, 23:48
cool !
thanks for the feed back guys I didnt expect this forum to be so active.

GAMBATE !

yours in shugyo