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PingAnTu
29th May 2003, 06:40
We've always called the front punch a Seiken Zuki. I've also heard the term Oi Zuki thrown around. Is Oi Zuki a front punch or what?

Paul Adamson

sepai 85
29th May 2003, 12:49
hai
I was taught oi tsuki as a step forward lunge punch.

yours in shugyo

Rob Alvelais
29th May 2003, 14:47
Not being a linguist, but having been around the jargon for some time, here's my understanding, Paul.

Seiken Zuki = Forefist thrust. (as opposed to tate ken zuki or vertical fist thrust. ura ken uchi or ippon ken...)

Seems that you can have any sort of seiken zuki. I.e., gyaku seiken zuki. or seiken choku zuki or oi seiken zuki or ura seiken zuki....


Oi Zuki = Stepping Punch. (Step and punch with the new front hand.) = Chasing Punch.


See, my understanding isn't much. ;)
Rob

PingAnTu
29th May 2003, 16:56
Thanks guys, cleared it up nicely

Gene Williams
29th May 2003, 22:44
Yes, oi-zuki is a lead hand punch, punch on the same side as stepping foot, but...it is a "lunge" punch, and should be a really serious, fully committed, explosive punch. So, all you guys who are still stepping and secretly counting "...1..2..3.." STOP THAT!! If you are pacticing a kata like Taikyoku Shodan or a Pinan, wherever there is a front stance/low block followed by an oi zuki, do them as one move and in one breath. Gene

gmanry
29th May 2003, 22:57
No doubt, if you aren't playing with the rhythm in Taikyoku kata, then you aren't doing your homework. This is the most underrated series of kata in karate. I love it when people say that it is a child's kata. It makes me laugh.

That is not to say that you can't still occassionally go back to the original slower timing, but you should go beyond it.

Another interesting thing to do is play with the center triple punches and see what happens. one....one-two, one-two...one, one-two-three (this one will get you hurt, do it to see why).

I am constantly amazed at the amount of karateka who don't know how to use this movment. I will admit it was a few years before I figured out it was useful, because my sensei never drilled us on it, being partial to gyaku tsuki.

If you want to mess with a kicker, polish this technique. :D

Goju Man
30th May 2003, 00:03
So, all you guys who are still stepping and secretly counting "...1..2..3.." STOP THAT!! If you are pacticing a kata like Taikyoku Shodan or a Pinan, wherever there is a front stance/low block followed by an oi zuki, do them as one move and in one breath. Gene
I agree Gene. It's more than just a basic block and punch, the timing of the execution are often taught incorrectly. That's funny considering just about all the good tournament fighters I've known, that was their bread and butter. I always taught the timing in one two pause one two pause one two three four in our taikyoku kata. I've seen many school do it incorrectly over many years.

Paul, I thought you were Isshin Ryu?

KENSHIN-SAN
30th May 2003, 01:00
IŽam in complete according with Rob,.....but if you say oi tsuki and ffront punch friend are different languages

Rogelio A. Ortega

Jock Armstrong
30th May 2003, 03:47
Seiken tsuki could actually mean any punch which contacts the target with the sieken or foreknuckles. I've most often heard it in connection with a jab but I've also heard that called kizama tsuki [shukokai]. Gyaku tsuki is a drive punch similar to a boxing cross, right hand/left foot.

Goju Man
31st May 2003, 02:02
Gyaku zuki reverse punch the punching hand is opposite the front foot.

Oi zuki, lunging punch, front foot and hand are the same.

PingAnTu
1st June 2003, 07:09
So... if I can sum this up properly (or not), Seiken zuki can be used as a jab or as a stepping punch whereas an oi zuki is a same-side stepping punch?

Manny, No Isshin-ryu around here. I'm a Shorin-Ryu guy. Not that I have anything against that style but I have an Isshin-ryu friend I tease as being a "Wishin' ryu" stylist because he's wishin' he has some ryu. :D

Paul Adamson

Goju Man
1st June 2003, 16:59
Paul, the term seiken tsuki is a general term referring to the two knuckle punch. It is usually in a neutral stance where you are just concentrating on the punch itself without any footwork involved. When footwork becomes involved, it is still a seiken tsuki, but the delivery is what is being described oi vs gyaku (lunge vs reverse). The stance is not nuetral anymore. If you were going to deliver a tate zuki (vertical punch) where the fist is vertical instead of horizontal, then it would not be a seiken. :)

Gene Williams
1st June 2003, 19:50
I had a yondan a while back who had a tremendous amount of spring in his legs. He would stand in cat stance or a natural fighting posture and spring forward, pushing off with his back leg and do what amounted to a lunging gyakuzuki with full hip twist and everything. Talk about power...I didn't teach it to him, but I started doing it after seeing him knock a couple of guys cold with it while fighting with body armor. Hit 'em in the ribs and down they went. Damn! He was a college defensive back and sprinter, so I guess that is where he got so much take off power. He stayed with me from white belt to yondan and then just disappeared. Don't you hate that... Gene

Goju Man
3rd June 2003, 03:23
He stayed with me from white belt to yondan and then just disappeared. Don't you hate that... Gene
I hate it when that happens.:(