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Prince Loeffler
1st June 2003, 06:47
I had an interesting discussion with a fellow yudansha in the concept of Ikken Hissatsu ( One Punch Kill).

The conversation was interesting that I thought I bring it up on this forum for some discussion. Does anyone here have some understanding of this concept ?

Would I be safe to assume that Ikken Hissatsu is just a japanese term for dim mak ?

My basic understanding of dim mak ( Besides, Jean Claude Van Dame in the movie Blood Sport:D ) is that that stikes to certain strikes to the body's vital point can cause serious and deadly consequences.

Are there any difference between the Japanese's Ikken Hissatsu and the chinese's dim mak ?

Thank guys ...Now back to pounding my forehead on the Makiwara 50 times each side :p

Jock Armstrong
1st June 2003, 11:47
Actually ikken hisatsu just means a fully committed technique that is designed to destroy whatever it hits. A lot of kata delineate their killing tech with a kiai. The closest thing to dim mak would be kyushou or vital point striking. I'm not sure exactly who started using ikken hisatsu as a term but I believe [and I may be wrong] it was someone early on in Shotokan. If you examine the shotokan kata there seem to be a lot of driving reverse punches [with kiai] which have no real other interpretation than a power "finisher". Are there any shotokan stylists out there who can shed more light on this?:beer:

CEB
1st June 2003, 14:17
Its my understanding the origin of the saying Ichi Geki Hissatsu is that of an old samurai maxim one strike he's dead. 3 of us Goju guys play Kendo and one of us wore a T-shirt to Kendo class one day from a Chinen Sensei Gasshuku. The shirt had a picture of a makiwara and had Ichi Geki Hissatsu written on it. Our Kendo teacher Tatsumi Sensei liked the shirt even though he doesn't care for Karate. Sensei smiled and said Yes ichi geki hissatsu, one attack one kill as he was doing kesa giri motions with his hands. He told us it was an old Samurai idea. So I assume it comes from Kenjutsu.

Prince Loeffler
1st June 2003, 18:27
Originally posted by CEB
Its my understanding the origin of the saying Ichi Geki Hissatsu is that of an old samurai maxim one strike he's dead. 3 of us Goju guys play Kendo and one of us wore a T-shirt to Kendo class one day from a Chinen Sensei Gasshuku. The shirt had a picture of a makiwara and had Ichi Geki Hissatsu written on it. Our Kendo teacher Tatsumi Sensei liked the shirt even though he doesn't care for Karate. Sensei smiled and said Yes ichi geki hissatsu, one attack one kill as he was doing kesa giri motions with his hands. He told us it was an old Samurai idea. So I assume it comes from Kenjutsu.

Interesting Ed, The concept of Ikken Hissatsu may have been influence by the samurai's Ichi Geki Hissatsu, As I recall with my limited knowledge in Okinawan-Japanese Budo. The okinawan were banned from using weapons by the japanese goverment. What are the possibilities that the actually usuage of Ikken Hissatsu came from the Okinawan ?

I need to clarify here a bit, I do undertand about the finishing punch that can knock out an opponent. What I am trying to look and understand is the Killing Punch. Does this exist ? are there any records that this concept Ikken Hissatsu does work ?

I think, The concept Ikken Hissatsu can be real, But I would like to have more understanding and knowledge about it.

Jock Armstrong
2nd June 2003, 13:00
From what I've read over the years the sword derived " one cut kill" sort of got adopted into Japanese karate along with a lot of other cultural things in the thirties. Its not impossible to kill someone with one strike, but it is difficult in combat whem your enemy is doing his level best to screw you over and just wont be helpful and expose the right target for [ingratitude of the man dammit!!] Its one of the karate "myths" that has just developed over the years. Even in kendo, it shouldn't be taken literally [I can feel the slap coming already]. It really refers to the commitment and concentration of the warrior rather than a literal single cut kill. Iai kata always have two cuts. One from the draw and a finisher. I don't thunk the Okinawans ever thought that one punch or kick would do the job. Thats why they taught combos.

Expectedly awaiting a whuppin' from outraged kendoka;:beer:

CEB
2nd June 2003, 13:27
Originally posted by Jock Armstrong
...Even in kendo, it shouldn't be taken literally [I can feel the slap coming already]. It really refers to the commitment and concentration of the warrior rather than a literal single cut kill. ....

Expectedly awaiting a whuppin' from outraged kendoka;:beer:

My Kendo Sensei basically said same thing.

If first one kills great, but just in case be ready with a ho lotta mo.

Snowtiger
25th July 2003, 14:02
Um... I once read somewhere, in some book, but can't remember which one (my best guess is "Best Karate: Bassai" but I'm not sure), that the whole term was a misunderstanding some decades ago. As I remember, it said that someone mistranslated a saying meaning "treat every punch/attack as if it could kill" into "kill with one punch" i.e. "one punch, one kill". Anyone know about this? :cool:

larsen_huw
25th July 2003, 14:08
Hi guys,

I don't know about the origins of the expression, but my shotokan sensei used to use the phrase "1 punch, 1 kill" on a reasonably regular basis. I think it was more of a training visualisation during line drills than anything else .... to imagine that every punch we throw is powerful enough to kill a man, and every block we execute is trying to stop a 'killing' punch.

I probably haven't shed any light on the issue, but it's passed another 2 minutes in my boring day job! :)

MAGon
31st July 2003, 16:09
I'm not sure exactly who started using ikken hisatsu as a term but I believe [and I may be wrong] it was someone early on in Shotokan. If you examine the shotokan kata there seem to be a lot of driving reverse punches [with kiai]
which have no real other interpretation than a power "finisher". Are there any shotokan stylists out there who can shed more light on this?

Jock: You don't need help from lil' ole Shotokan me, 'cause as far as I know you were right on the money. The only thing I can add is that I believe it was Nakayama Sensei who first used it in IN PRINT. As others have pointed out, it was a much older concept than that.
You're also correct in that one interpretation is as a "finisher". The others that have pointed out that it was meant as "Throw every punch as if it was a killing blow" and "Treat every punch (Incoming and outgoing) as if it was a killing blow" are also correct. Over the years I've heard all these concepts used in reference to ikken hisatsu.