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CEB
3rd June 2003, 17:29
Originally posted by gmanry
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Probably should be in a new thread, but does anyone have some good exercises for grip strength? Grippers just don't cut it. I am starting suburito exercises and in learning the left hand position on the tsuka,
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Exercises for stronger gripping.

I like tools. I like Tim ‘The Tool Man’ Taylor. I especially like Tim ‘The Tool Man’ Taylor’s wife Jill but never mind. Some exercise tools that can help develop stronger hands.

1) Game or Nigiri Game ( gripping jars) - You can get these from Shureido and a few other suppliers that cater to Okinawian stylist. They are outrageously overpriced. Maybe you could have some luck have a pottery person make you a pair. An alternative are the big pickle Jars that resturants buy their dill pickles in. If you like pickles you can get these at your local Sam’s Club store. What you want are 2 big jars with 3 to 3.5 inch lipped openings. There are various exercises you can do with one jar in each hand that rotating the jar and lifting and rotating the jars. The exercise are typically based on hands techniques from our kata. If you are an electrical Lineman or have any friends who are electrician the big ceramic insulators that go on the electric poles are good. The tops of the insulators are the perfect shape for these exercises. But they are heavy. The exercises that lift and turn the game will be difficult to do with these. I don’t know of any media that covers these exercises and I don’t have time to describe any of maybe someone else does.

2) Chi Ishi – ( rock on a stick ) – These are easy to make. Get some plastic butter containers some closet dowel and some big nails. Put a nail sideways through one end of about a 2 foot piece of dowel set straight up and down centered in the butter tub and fill the container with cement. What you have is a one ended dumbbell. Further out you work on the handle the greater the effect because of the physics of the thing. Again there are several different exercise you can do with these.

3) Tama – these are steel balls about 1.75 inches to 2.5 inches in diameter. You can buy these from Wing Lam or you can go to a bearing supply company The price is about the same. A few things can be done with these but mostly. I just hold them in the palm of my hands while I do kata. I start with people with golf balls at first to get the feel. If you drop one on your foot don’t blame me. I am not advocating anybody do this. This for informational purposes only.


Gripping Techniques? How do people grip. Do all the fingers grip and squeeze or just some of them. There is a secret have to doing this strongly. I’m curious how many other people know this. Take care everybody.

Gene Williams
3rd June 2003, 20:46
Ed, You need to spend less time gripping your tool:D

CEB
3rd June 2003, 20:59
Originally posted by CEB


Gripping Techniques? How do people grip. Do all the fingers grip and squeeze or just some of them. There is a secret have to doing this strongly. I’m curious how many other people know this. Take care everybody.

Damn that is awful. I’ll try this one more time.

Gripping Techniques? How do you fine people wrist grab? Do all the fingers grip and squeeze or just some of them? There is a secret here to grabbing strongly. I’m curious how many other people know this. Take care everybody.

CEB
3rd June 2003, 21:18
Originally posted by Gene Williams
Ed, You need to spend less time gripping your tool:D
That would be an excellent workout just from because of the sheer size of the thing. It takes both hands just to get around and lift the thing.

Gene Williams
3rd June 2003, 21:59
We grasp, not grab, the wrist but do not grip witht the index finger, leaving it relaxed or pointing it in the direction we want the opponent to go, or into his hara. One of our instructors used to say, "The index finger is for buggers and bullets, not for gripping." Gene P.S. (that ain't what your wife says:p )

gmanry
3rd June 2003, 23:17
Similar to what Gene suggests, I do not use the index finger. I grip in a manner that wrings the forearm or wrist, like an Indian Sunburn sort of. I find this helps me disbalance the opponent and lock onto their skin (painful).

This allows you to control the wrist, elbow and shoulder. This type of grip is sometimes called pliers or scissors hands in that the thumb is not applied strongly either. Actually, this is also similar to some methods of using swords and can be found in some Aikido schools.

Unfortunately, I was cursed with my fathers small wrists and ankles, but I got his superb arches and quads (and a good butt too from what my wife and former girlfriends have told me :D ).

So I have always had a less than ideal grip. I usually reinforce it with techniques like that mentioned above. Strangely though I have always been a good puncher, but I attribute that to training my alignment. I haven't rolled a wrist on my right hand for a long, long, long time. My left hand has rolled a few times, but I am able to just let the power melt away before I kill my wrist.

I am aware of those Junbi Undo exercises. I do one occacionally with a big brick. Grip it in the finger tips by one end and drop it, you have to catch it with the fingertips of the other hand by the end of the brick. Like Ed, I make no warranties on feet.

I have made Chi Ishi out of dumbells by removing the weights on one end. I should get back to that. I suspect the Chi Ishi work a little better being longer. I also use my bo (6' 5" and made of Hickory) and grip it by the end, I then move it in an arc like a windshield wiper. This is hard on the wrist, but it builds it up.

Goju Man
4th June 2003, 02:15
I have made a couple out of dumbells and one out of pvc pipe and galvanized caps. One of the best exercises I've come across for grip and also grappling strength is rope climbing. I got turned on to it in Judo. Maybe that's why those Judoka can grip.
That would be an excellent workout just from because of the sheer size of the thing. It takes both hands just to get around and lift the thing.
Your instrument?:eek:

gmanry
4th June 2003, 03:05
Seeing as I now live in Wyoming, I have thought about doing some very light rock climbing. So, perhaps a good way to start (besides getting lessons from people who aren't dead) is to climb rope. That sounds like a good plan, strength and and the development of a new skill.

Either that or put on my ninjer suit and take to the roof tops! :up:

PaulP
4th June 2003, 03:12
I started using a blacksmith hammer (it’s like a short handled sledgehammer), I still like using it. I use homemade chi ishi, Pickle jars and paver stones for nigiri gami. I also made a wrist roller; it’s a 1.5-inch by 3 foot PVC pipe with a hole through the middle and a rope threaded to a dumbbell plate. For our Shaolin class I made tiger bags. Their leather bags about 8 to 10-inch diameter filed with steel shot. You toss it in the air then grab it with your fingertips.
I was also taught not to grab using the index finger. You’re supposed to use the index to direct where you want to your partner to go or fall (directing your Chi). I do find it gives a stronger grip.

Goju Man
4th June 2003, 03:12
Glenn, make sure you take a sharp knife though.:D

Goju Man
4th June 2003, 03:48
Check this out (http://www.bushifitness.com/equipment.htm)

Gene Williams
4th June 2003, 04:12
That looks like quality equipment, but it seems expensive for what it is. Gene

gmanry
4th June 2003, 04:21
Yeah, it is expensive, but that is probably a reflection of the fact that it is made out a very durable resin, which probably isn't cheap. Pretty nices stuff. It is also specialty equipment meaning you can put a premium on it. Have you seen some of the stuff at bujindesign? Good God, Aikido is all yuppified now more than ever, but their stuff is really, really nice.

Gene Williams
4th June 2003, 04:28
Yeah, The bujindesign stuff is right yuppified. I'm sure it is high quality stuff, but if I came to the dojo with something like that my seniors would laugh out loud and pound their gut...after which I would pound their gut:D Gene

CEB
4th June 2003, 04:55
Yep pretty much. Grip with The thumb, The bird, and the ring finger. pointer finger and pinky don't grip. They just go along for the ride. The 3 squeezing digits grip to the bone. If you don't know about this then get a partner grab their wrist squeeze with all your digits and have them get out. No Hong Kong Phooey stuff just a basic go against the thumb release. Next grip with thumb, middle and ring finger. Keep shoulder down and elbow down of the grabbing arm and grab bone. Then have partner do the thumb release. You should feel a big difference. I don't know the physiology of why. I just was taught that is how you do it. We don't necessarily advocate grabbing but everything has its place. The methods that goju uses to obtain a grip is one of the coolest parts of the style. If your muchimi is OK you don't even need to grab but I could never do Uchi Mata without grabbing something.

I don't know the difference between grab and grasp except grab is a 4 letter word and grasp is a 5 letter word. I seem to have a thing for using 4 letter words.

The aiki pointer finger isn't necessary but it is a useful training tool when learning wrist controls. Especially for sankajo. I have a hard time with sankajo.

Kimo Sensei highly reccomends Kevin Roberts' Hojo Undo implements. Kimo Sensei called Kevin his student when he told me about them a couple of years ago. The web page says he is Shorinkan so he must do Matayoshi Kobudo under Kimo Sensei. Not sure but his stuff comes highly reccomended. They still need to put some rubber padding on the handles of the ishi sashi. Those damn things hurt the tops of my feet.

I'm tired its past my bedtime good night.

Gene Williams
4th June 2003, 11:36
Ed, Don't do sankajo...do uchi mawari...it is a more versatile technique, easier to move from into other applications, an it hurts like Hell. I learned sankajo from the aikido folks as just a set up for a projection. Gene

TyroneTurner
4th June 2003, 19:33
Iron Mind Enterprises has great hand strength development tools and literature. Check them out at www.IronMind.com.

Peace & health,

Harry Cook
5th June 2003, 13:07
I've got a pair of Sandow grip dumbbells from about 1905 or so. If you close them and try to do Sanchin kata while holding them closed it definitely works the grip.
Some other ideas
1. use a heavy kettlebell - the clean and press will improve your grip and forearm muscles. That is you have to press the kettlebell with the weight above the handle, not resting on the wrist/forearm.
2. Get and old axe head - make sure it is blunt - hand some weight on it by threading rope/chain or whatever through the socket. Try to lift the weight by pinch-gripping the axe blade. Naturally the wedge shape tries to slip out of your grip, so you really have to squeeze hard.
There is an excellent, if now quite rare, book by David Willoughby..."Super Athletes" which has a very valuable section on grip strength.
Yours,
Harry Cook

gmanry
5th June 2003, 16:35
Thanks for all the ideas. I will have to experiment with them.

Ed, as far as rock climbing, there is a place that has a small climbing wall and lessons. I will start there if I ever get around to it. There are a lot of small climbing groups here to get started with as well.

Budoka 34
5th June 2003, 18:39
Kevin Roberts is one of our locals.

He makes really nice and very functional gear.

Grip training is one of my favorite things! I use a pair of Pivy handles(log rollers) and do a shoulder and grip work out. I hold them with a sword type grip (pinky, ring, and middle finger) with the pinky and ring finger doing most of the work. Then twice a week I do suspended roller weight for the wrists.

You might also like a bucket of beans!:D
Really, I do finger and hand thrusts into a bucket of dried beans then I grip a handful as tight as possible, then throw the beans back in the bucket. Builds a fast and strong grip.
I don't work this as much as I'd like, my wife hates the smell of my dit jow.;)

As to climbing, few things can build hand strength like hanging from your fingers. I taught climbing for ten years. Start slow build up to free hangs, then ring grips, finially work double and single digit hangs. Work it slowly, tendon/ligament injury are easy to get and hard to heal. Besides climbing is a great way to meet physically fit ladies.
I met my wife at the climbing gym I taught at.:D

I'm going to try some of your other drills and tools, this stuff sounds great.

:smilejapa

Brooks Snider
6th June 2003, 00:32
Maybe I am too simple, but has everyone forgotten the Chinese Exercise Balls. You know, the ones you roll in your palms using the fingers. I have found that, depending on the position of the hand/arm, the movement of the balls work specific muscle groups of the hand, the forearm, around the elbow, the triceps, and also the lower and rear shoulder. I use them while watching TV, reading, and on long driving trips. I find them to be convenient and a wonderful contribution to hand/grip strength.

Brooks Snider
Motobu ha Shito ryu

CEB
6th June 2003, 03:18
Yes, in fact the tama balls I mentioned that are made specifically for martial art practice are the same size but are solid not hollow.

Remember this, and I bet your sensei has said this before, Simple is good. :)

Markaso
14th June 2003, 01:21
If you really want to go the cheap way, the way I usually go, I use the lieter pet bottles and put some water in them for weight. Then I grab the bottoms. Sometimes, while carrying the bottles, I do some Ashi Ido Renshu ( foot work) training where you walk up and down the Dojo in different stances. I also go through Tenshou Kata although it is a bit awkward with the bottles.

19th June 2003, 23:30
Soak a towel and then continue to wring it out till dry.

Windlass is wonderful for grip and wrist.

6ft dowell is also good for wrist curls and grip strength.

The Iron Mind grippers.

Weight drop/catching also builds the fingers.

:smilejapa

RobertW
20th June 2003, 02:48
fingertip push-ups.

PaulP
20th June 2003, 05:20
I busted up my hand many years ago, misspent youth. Broken thumb, 5th metacarpal (little finger knuckle).
My doctor gave me a foam rubber ball too squeeze, because my hand was Arthritic. I changed that for a foam rubber hockey puck (Eh I'm Canadian).
I later found at Mountain Equipment Coop in the rock climbing section a forearm trainer. It's a hard rubber donut you squeeze. I found that I could carry it in my pocket and use it as I walked around at Work or shopping. I have one in the car and use it will i'm driving.
I was at a Aikido seminar many years ago where an instructor demoed a technic where she grabbed a clenched first and that person dind't have the strengh to open their hand. So I started using a large Rubber band around my finger so I had to work at extending my fingers. That gives a great workout for the hand and the forearm.

elder999
10th July 2003, 23:31
play the piano

I was a sickly child, and long before I could do anthing athletic, I had a helluva grip, because I practiced piano every day.........when I started doing other stuff, fuggedaboudit.....

CEB
3rd December 2003, 05:28
Here is a drill I got from Sagushito. I've worked it twice now. It's kicking my butt. It is the isolation aspect of the pinching exercise I think that is making it such hard work for me. After I do the the first two fingers I'm OK once I get the ring finger My hands decide they don't want no more. Instead of working it with a partner I work it by myself handing the plate back and forth between right and left hand. Thanks Mad Dog.


Pinch Grip is another good drill to do with a partner. Grab a 25lb plate with your thumb and index finger and pass it to your partner and he returns the favor 10 -15 times each hand, then try the thumb and middle and then the killer thumb and ring finger, then last thumb and pinkie then e-mail me if ya can and let me know how it was?? :o)

Hurricane Sokon
3rd December 2003, 22:31
I agree with Ed about the gripping thing- using the middle and ring fingers for the majority of the squeeze on a wrist grab. The truth is that the strongest digits are the index and middle finger, but sometimes the pointer is not long enough and can't "lock-out" the wrist grab. Hooking the thumb and index finger (sometimes pinky) so that they "dig" into the forearm bones and surrounding nerves and arteries (as well as the thumb) is another technique you should try out. This is not a pressure or gripping thing, as much as it is an alignment thing. Think of these digits as the prongs of a sai.

For a really easy grip strengthening exercise, try taking a conventional weight bar, and without any plates on it, sit down on a bench or seat, place your arms palms up on your thighs and roll it from the palms of your hand to your fingertips, back and forth. Try 4 sets of 10-12 reps. If this isn't enough increase the weight and/or do as many sets and reps as you can tolerate. Trapezius "crunches" using at least 85 pound dumbells WITHOUT wrist straps will also gradually improve grip strength, as will deadlifting, T-Bar and pull-ups w/o straps. Be sure to use weight lifting gloves so you don't get sandpaper rough-arsed hands!

Surgeons and some JJJ guys like to use those finger exercisers that are spring-loaded. The fingers depress resistant "keys" in order to increase finger and hand strength.

The traditional hojo undo Ed mentioned are very good. Gravel and sand jars, bamboo bundles and the makiwara can condition fingers too, which is part of grip strength. Speaking of the classical "mess", Kobudo/Kobujutsu increases grip strength and forearm/arm strength (also a component of grip strength). The traditonalists knew this, and that is an added benefit of weapons training.

There are many more ways to increase grip strength. By the way your wrist will never collapse when you hit the heavy-bag (even w/o wraps which a karate-ka should not need to wear) if your fist never torques past 45 degrees (beyond vertical). Once your wrist is horizontal then overall stability and alignment is lost. Simple biomechanics. A&P is real...

Stay naturah'...

CEB
3rd December 2003, 22:53
Originally posted by Hurricane Sokon
I agree with Ed about the gripping thing- using the middle and ring fingers for the majority of the squeeze on a wrist grab. The truth is that the strongest digits are the index and middle finger, but sometimes the pointer is not long enough and can't "lock-out" the wrist grab. Hooking the thumb and index finger (sometimes pinky) so that they "dig" into the forearm bones and surrounding nerves and arteries (as well as the thumb) is another technique you should try out. This is not a pressure or gripping thing, as much as it is an alignment thing. Think of these digits as the prongs of a sai.
....

Thanks Bryan, that explains why Mad Dog's pinching drill is more difficult when you get to the isolated ring finger while at the same time my strongest grip utilizes middle and ring fingers.

Hurricane Sokon
3rd December 2003, 23:04
Who's Bryan?


Anyway, sorry for the use of the word thumb twice. I didn't reread what I wrote...