Name this choke?

[Ben_Holmes]

http://www.rain.org/~bnholmes/choke.jpg

Here's a choke that I think we've all done from time to time. Tori begins control by grabbing uke's arm, then takes the lapel, and chokes with the one arm only. I think this is really helpful to get your favorite osaekomi, than as an effective choke - but it can be! And its name?

[efb8th]

Looks like Katate Jime to me.

[MarkF]

Geez, Ben, I just read your Email so you found a way quickly, I see.

I agree that the choke is not the primary goal so I thought it really was a kansetsu waza/gatame waza. It looks like ude-hishigi-te-gatame, but since you say it is a choke, possibly ED has something, but with the hand palm down, I would say kata-juji-jime to ude-hishigi-juji-gatami?

With the right hand turned up, the closest it comes is ude-hishigi-te-gatame.

As a pure choke, though, it looks similar to tsukkomi-jime.

I thought you were going to post another nage.:(

Oh, btw, welcome to e-budo.:wave: For the rest of you, this is the man from whom I "stole" that scan of seoi-otoshi:D

Regards,

Mark



[Edited by MarkF on 09-15-2000 at 02:49 AM]

[Jeff Cook]

In (I think) UFC 2 Royce Gracie beat a Japanese karate man with this technique, somewhat modified - he did not sit-out for the finish, as in the picture, from what I remember. The announcers could not decide whether he tapped from the choke or from the arm bar. It clearly looked like he was choked out.

Another possible modification is to sit back into juji gatame, still maintaining the same arm/hand positions. The angle on the choke is different from this position, however.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[efb8th]

Hi, Mark.
Welcome, Ben!

The man asked me to name his choke, so I did, Mark. The shime is definitely right ulna vs. left carotid. Unless you want to call that an ulna "thrust" or "poke," in which case it would definitely be atemi, not shime. (Mark, haven't I warned you about those "FORBIDDEN" strikes? Judo is a sport!)

Te Gatame (Winding Arm Variation)is probably a good call on the lock, but HE DIDNT ASK, Mark.

If you want to know why I'm so grumpy, check the time stamp.
I'm headed for work!

[Ben_Holmes]

Ed, you're a tough audience! I'll have to dig deep to find something that can stump anyone!

Yes, it is Katatejime. As I said, as a choke it's not much, but I know I've used it before... sometimes it just comes up as you're trying to get some pin or whatever.

I actually use it frequently as I move from 'legs around top' to Yokoshihogatame. Brief description:

Right hand grabs uke's left lapel... keep elbow down, palm up (to avoid armbar attacks), now, with left arm, drive underneath uke's right leg, and around to the front (his leg will now be up on your left shoulder), grab with left hand ABOVE right hand on same lapel. Release right hand, slide body under uke's right leg around to uke's right side. Control uke as you slide around by driving your left elbow down (There's the choke!!), then into Yokoshihogatame.

Mark: I found the FAQ, and figured the answer was there.

[efb8th]

Hi again, Ben.

I like to use Katate Jime as a "derringer" when uke tries to counter my Right-side Yama Arashi. When uke thrusts his left leg into my sweeping right leg at the hip, I pull down with both hands on my double right side grip and shoot both legs back around his block. If my right handed lapel grip is deep enough, I can bring him down to his right side (with me on my knees behind his back) and get a very long elbow arc to lever the choke. When I hit it, the katate jime becomes pretty spectacular, because I can brace his left shoulder from behind with my left hand, so he can't roll out.

[MarkF]

Hi Ben and Ed,
Just to give myself a point (koka) for something, I did agree basically with your answer, Ed, but I admit totally that I was stumped. I had done that choke by more or less "wrapping up" the opponent, and I couldn't get passed the palm down instead of palm up.:o

But keep 'em coming, as I am at a loss sometimes when bring ing up something new (or, at least something old which I haven't done since competing).

Mark