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seskoad
4th June 2003, 13:11
from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2961288.stm

Free sex offer for US troops


The first 50 soldiers to arrive will receive a free sex pack
A US brothel is offering free sex to US troops who took part in the war against Iraq to thank them for their endeavours abroad.
The Moonlight Bunnyranch in Carson City, Nevada, where brothels are legal, has produced a more erotic version of the standard TA-50 army kits issued to troops headed into battle.

Instead of a compass, toothbrush and soap, the pack handed to soldiers who turn up at the brothel includes condoms, lubricant and a free sex session - with a value of up to $1,000.

"We wanted to show our appreciation for everything they've done," Dennis Hof, the proprietor, told BBC News Online. "We wanted to give these guys some special care and attention."

Mr Hof said the idea had been put to him by one of his female employees, who had served in the war.

The TA-50 offer is open to the first 50 soldiers who turn up at the brothel.

But all is not lost for those who arrive late. The Moonlight Bunnyranch is offering a 50% discount on all its services to servicemen and women for 50 days after the first offer expires.

Mr Hof said he was also considering a special offer for British troops who took part in the war against Iraq.

"It would be really great to get those guys to come over to the Bunnyranch," he said.

wendy ongaro
4th June 2003, 13:56
GGGRRREEEAAT. When my next round of vets present to my PTSD program from Gulf War II with rip raging cases of genital warts (the spread of which are not prevented by condoms), I'll know who to thank. All for my future viewing pleasure. Yuck.

Soulend
4th June 2003, 14:53
Were I not married, I believe I'd be checking MAC flight schedules :)

elder999
4th June 2003, 15:02
Originally posted by wendy ongaro
GGGRRREEEAAT. When my next round of vets present to my PTSD program from Gulf War II with rip raging cases of genital warts (the spread of which are not prevented by condoms), I'll know who to thank. All for my future viewing pleasure. Yuck.

Actually, prostitution is legal and licensed at that facility, and as part of that licensing the....uhhh... "workers" are medically screened for all STDs weekly.
...but-for what it's worth-you get what you pay for, no more or less....:rolleyes:

wendy ongaro
5th June 2003, 00:18
Unfortunately, there isn't a screening test for genital warts. There are 20+ different subtypes of the virus that causes them, four of which are associated with rectal and cervical cancer. Most variants do not have overt symptoms (i.e. venereal warts), and most people do not develop warts for 4-6 weeks after infection. Sometimes, it can take up to 9 months before a patient is symptomatic. The results of studies looking at the use of condoms to prevent the spread of venereal warts have been disappointing. So don't let the "we screen our health workers every week" fool you, you can still get VD.

Buyer Beware! :p

elder999
5th June 2003, 00:31
OK. The only reason I know about these places is because I had a buddy who worked security in one. It's my understanding, though, that the...."workers" get a weekly pap smear, and that their "license" is yanked the minute it comes up abnormal-something that happens with some regularity, I'm told...and part of the reason my buddy passed up on "freebies." Of course, the lag time between infection and an abnormal pap is extremely variable, and it may not happen at all....

wendy ongaro
5th June 2003, 01:00
if it's even a strain that causes abnormal paps...remember, only four of the 20 cause cervical cancer....:D

wendy ongaro
5th June 2003, 01:07
Actually, I am for legalization of prostitution for this reason- sex workers can get medical screening, and it does cut down on the rates of STD spread between clients and workers.... However, I do have to look at it all day (plus more) and it gets old- thus my smart-ass commentary on this post.

I think people need to be realistic about how "Safe" safe sex really is. And, even if worker's medical health is addressed, the emotional and psychological consequences of sex work are devastating. Sometimes, although not very often as most of my patients are men, I do deal with the consequences of that, too, and it's no fun.

seskoad
5th June 2003, 16:29
In my country,
government say " If you want to be safe from aids and etc, no free sex"

We replied "It's not free, we paid"

Malay asked the singporean guy, "why your government prohibit you to eat chewing gum"
Singaporean guy replied "well, after we had sex, we sent our used condom to factory to make chewing gum then sell it to malaysian"

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

wendy ongaro
6th June 2003, 01:44
Hmmmm. I don't think I'll be chewing bubble gum anytime soon.

In the HIV clinic where did my infectious disease rotation for PA school, they kept a basket of free condoms designated solely for oral sex (i.e. they were flavored). Of course, being nosey, I had to check them out, as I have to admit, that was a new concept for me (I guess I'm a traditionalist). I remember the grape flavored condoms because they were really strong smelling, even in the package, and they smelled identical to Hubba Bubba grape flavored bubble gum...now I know the truth! :p

Chuck Munyon
6th June 2003, 06:35
Wendy,
I thought is was only two of the twenty that caused CCA, 16 and 18; I may be misremembering, though. At any rate, isn't it true that condoms only fail to prevent transmission of the virus if the infected area is outside the protective area of the condom (i.e. condyloma on the labia majora)? I say, go for it, troops!

:D

wendy ongaro
6th June 2003, 14:17
chuck,

I have seen condyloma from the mid thigh to the inguinal area, to the top of the crease of the buttocks and well up into the anal area...in men. Condoms don't cover this. there are four out of 20 (that we know of. there's a ton about HPV we still don't know about).

I currently have a patient whom I have to refer back to the surgeon for rectal cancer associated with condyloma, as the last biopsy had cancer to the margin of the biopsy (meaning they missed some) Oh yeah... he's in his early forties, by the way, and no, he's not gay nor is he one of my inmate patients.

I really haven't seen as much HPV in women because I just don't see as many women in my practice (veterans, inmates are the bulk of my practice).

So I agree with Chuck- go for it troops- IF your willing to accept the consequences... but as a medical provider, don't come whining to me as veterans and get your panties (literally) in a wad when i tell you I can't do nothing more except burn the lesions off with liquid nitrogen. Oh yeah... and you need to tell your wife/girlfriend what it is and that it's contagious, too.

Alright, I've said what I need to say. IF folks like Chuck and the rest of you can't deal with the medical facts from a practicing medical professional, fine. Keep your denial and your VD to yourselves and have a great time. See you in the cryo clinic- after I've given you that big ass shot of rocephin for your bloody gonorrhea.

Chuck Munyon
6th June 2003, 15:12
Wendy,
It's not that I can't "deal with the facts," I had just learned different facts. I am certainly willing to accept that you have seen extremely egregious cases, but I learned about HPV from the woman who heads up STD intervention at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania. That there are discrepancies between what she taught and what you are saying just goes to show that there is still some disagreement in the medical community as to the nature of HPV. My primary point was that condoms are still effective in preventing most STDs, and can also prevent HPV transmission in the majority of cases (especially the female condom, which gives better external coverage). The extensive screening that prostitutes at liscensed facilities undergo makes them a safer bet than many of the other outlets that these guys might have for their sexual urges, and it's already been shown that just yelling "sex=death" is not going to make those urges go away. Abstinence is obviously the ideal, but it's been shown time and time again that, in America anyway, abstinence just doesn't sell.

Margaret Lo
6th June 2003, 17:16
The Moonlight Bunnyranch was on TV as a documentary. Cameras recorded the intro to the services, then the people were asked to sign a release so they could document that part of the transaction.

The interaction of camera, people and sexworkers was hilarious because the customers were just so ordinary and curious. Quite a few husband/wife customers too. The ranch was also NOT cheap. The most basic of services would $800 and up.

M

gmanry
6th June 2003, 19:35
What about the female heterosexual troops? Is the Bunny Ranch primarily in service of male heterosexual troops.

Of course we can't ask about homosexual troops, we know they are all sissified cowards who would never defend their country and would rape their fellow soldiers. :rolleyes:

I say Buyer Beware and develop some self-control.

I have always found the military propensity to push the notion that men are uncontrollable sexual animals to be interesting, if disturbing. Yet another linkage between (hetero)sex and violence in our culture. The unofficial condoning of prostitution by our military in the past and present is disturbing in and of itself, not to mention what it can do to those young male members of the military who are still incredibly emotionally immature in terms of their relationships with women. Although, I understand this was an offer by the Bunnyranch, I think it ties in with this propensity in the unofficial military approach towards its male enlistees and female prostitution.

It never ceases to amaze me....

thoughts?

pgsmith
6th June 2003, 19:47
Glenn,
Camp followers have been part of armies since the first wars were fought with sticks. It's only in the last hundred years or so that prostitution has become 'evil'. Is that because man has become enlightened or controlling? That's something that everyone has to decide for themselves.

P.S. Prostitution is much preferable to rape or fighting amongst yourselves for dealing with excess testosterone and releasing pent-up emotions from battle. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Cheers,

kirigirisu
6th June 2003, 20:31
Perhaps it's a rather archaic method used by the Top Brass to walk the fine line between "just enough" agression and "too much" agression in soldiers caused by what they used to refer to as the "spanish toothache."

You've got to figure, yes, you're exploiting the biological consequences of a rather large buildup of testosterone in the typical human young adult male for the purpose of throwing groups of them en mass against other groups of typical human young adult males to kill/maim/pillage for land, resources, social/political dominance, silly fairy-tales concocted by unwashed early-bronze-age middle-eastern tribals millenia ago in order to prevent the consumption of swine, et. al..

Yet, on top of encouraging one set of behaviors caused by a testosterone dump in the body, you're restricting, nay, prohibiting another set (the whole hump-and-pump thing), probably in part due to the aforementioned proliferation of the silly fairy-tales concocted by unwashed early-bronze-age middle-eastern tribals millenia ago, not realizing that the two sets of behavior are part and parcel of the same package.

In the end, it's just another case of Man effing with Nature, tweaking with the instinctual four "F"s (Fightin', Feedin', Fleein', and Fornicatin') without regard to the consequences.

Just remember, Nature's a mother, and retribution will usually be the karmic equivalent of a telephone pole with all the bits and wires and transformers still attached, lovingly inserted sideways up the nether orifices, no kiss, no K-Y.

gmanry
6th June 2003, 21:06
http://www.gender.org.uk/about/06encrn/63_aggrs.htm

http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/mjm/issues/v06n01/v06p032/v06p032.pdf

This is the problem, testosterone does not cause agressive behavior, see links above, particularly in humans that exhibit complex social behaviors. These soldiers are conditioned to aggressive behavior due to the military social context, e.g. they are taught that it is o.k.

The military could just as easily condition another set of behaviors into the soldiers for non-combat situations, or simply outlaw contact with prostitutes and save the military a ton of money on dealing with STD's. This whole myth that boys can't control their aggression is just that, a myth, poop, hogwash, horsepuckey. The fact that they are not encouraged or required to is the real reason for this problem.

Our military is in deep doo doo in Okinawa for this problem caused by unofficial military policy. The Tailhook scandal was caused in part by this unofficial military policy. The sexual assault on female cadets is the result of this unofficial military policy. Assault on male soldiers by other male soldiers (usually non-sexual) is the result of this unofficial military policy.

I am not saying the military is "evil." I am saying that they need to overhaul their training and operations to reflect a reality that has outstripped victorian approaches to men, women, and combat.

The argument that testosterone is to blame is a hollow one. Hormones don't cause complex decisions and behaviors, pure and simple. In animals, there are a limited number of behaviors given a situation. In people there are a much more diverse number of behaviors. Decisions are made, behaviors are not "triggered" it is not simple stimulus/response. But maybe it is, because the training rubric is so narrow and based on such outmoded and incorrect logic. Provide alternate behavioral choices and you may get a different outcome.

It's interesting to note that in surveys of rapists and other sexual offenders masturbation is overwhelmingly considered to be "wrong" and "evil." Similarly, in the military this sort of notion is also pushed. If you can't get a "real woman" (even if you have to pay for one in the village that secretly despises you as much as it welcomes your money) then you are not a man. Can't not be a MAN. Can anyone please tell me, what does this have to do with obtaining a mission objective?

I have trained in combative arts for 20 years, I lift, run, hit, kick, grapple, work with weapons that have injured me...somehow my testosterone never once convinced me to go get a prostitute or rape a woman. I have been assaulted and fought for my personal safety, still didn't need to do these things to "bleed" off my testosterone. War is hell, but my Grandfather didn't need to do these things either, and he was on the front line push into Berlin as a tank commander (low life expectancy).

It is lazy thinking on the part of military brass. It causes a lot of harm and hurts our relationships with other countries, not to mention what it does to the mental attitudes of some of our soldiers (not all of them of course, some are mature and capable of making better decisions than others).

How do we explain aggression in women without testosterone? Yet, apparently female soldiers have demonstrated equal valor in combat in the last 15 years. They are not out raping young boys or soliciting male prostitutes. In fact, if they did, boy would we not hear the end of that...WOMEN doing such things and not living up to our cultural expectations of them.

The fact is that they haven't been given the wink and the nod that such things are ok. There is no girls will be girls equivalency in the military unofficial rules handbook, which is a good thing.

I'm sorry, I just see it as excuse making and bad policy. I could keep it in my pants when I didn't have a girlfriend, and when you are young that is quite often sometimes. So, I just don't see the argument.

kirigirisu
6th June 2003, 21:38
Testosterone, social conditioning, instinct, whatever.

In any case, it's bad policy all around.

The root of all this idioticy is idea that touching your wee-wee (or having it touched) until you explode like Thor is evil unless your wee-wee is touched in a manner prescribed by a set of rules inspired by silly fairy-tales concocted by unwashed middle-eastern tribals millenia ago.

I mean, if denial and self-imposed restraint is your bag, bully for you. I just think it's silly that it should be a socially imposed edict. Anybody should be able to explode like Thor by any means available that causes no harm to others, whether it be by wanking, shacking up with and/or shagging a willing person, knee-trembling in the alley behind the pub with an equally-randy chick you've met five minutes ago, or paying for it if you want your thunder-god releases without any emotional strings attached.

Gordon Bennett, I just opened up a whole can of worms on that one, didn't I?

Eff it. Just get rid of all those silly-assed fairy tales. Damned early-bronze age middle eastern tribals and the modern day idiots that take their metaphorical messages out of historical context and use it to exploit the weak-willed and weak-minded for fun and profit.

In any case, I don't think it's a problem that will go away within our lifetimes unless either a.)a goodly portion of the human population experiences simultaneous and sponaneous enlightenment b.) some modern day idiot with the means and wherewithall manages to enforce a bunch of edicts inspired by silly-assed fairy tales concocted millenia ago by unwashed middle eastern tribals through the most draconian methods imaginable.

kirigirisu
6th June 2003, 22:02
Originally posted by gmanry
It's interesting to note that in surveys of rapists and other sexual offenders masturbation is overwhelmingly considered to be "wrong" and "evil." Similarly, in the military this sort of notion is also pushed. If you can't get a "real woman" (even if you have to pay for one in the village that secretly despises you as much as it welcomes your money) then you are not a man. Can't not be a MAN. Can anyone please tell me, what does this have to do with obtaining a mission objective?


Transference and exploitation of social conditioning.

Obtaining mission objective = obtaining victory = (skipping a whole buncha steps)= obtaining perceived dominant and/or alpha male status = obtaining perceived access to more females with the purpose of having them touch your wee-wee until you explode like Thor. Multiple times with many different partners.

Insert mighty war-yawp here (RRARRGH).

Silly, isn't it?



I have trained in combative arts for 20 years, I lift, run, hit, kick, grapple, work with weapons that have injured me...somehow my testosterone never once convinced me to go get a prostitute or rape a woman. I have been assaulted and fought for my personal safety, still didn't need to do these things to "bleed" off my testosterone. War is hell, but my Grandfather didn't need to do these things either, and he was on the front line push into Berlin as a tank commander (low life expectancy).


Cookie-cutter mentality.

You've got to remember, all men are created equal, but (as they say)some are more equal than others. For every good and decent man out there, there is a ratio of ruthless, self-serving, selfish bastards willing to do just about anything for his own pleasure and perceived advantage in whatever social context he's got set up in that sick and twisted brain of his. And folks everywhere in between.

Not all people aspire to the same ideals you have for yourself. In fact, a disappointingly huge number fall far short.



How do we explain aggression in women without testosterone? Yet, apparently female soldiers have demonstrated equal valor in combat in the last 15 years. They are not out raping young boys or soliciting male prostitutes. In fact, if they did, boy would we not hear the end of that...WOMEN doing such things and not living up to our cultural expectations of them.


No, more likely, the overly-aggressive ones so inclined are more likely to take it out on their spouses/significant others or their own children, cultural expectations be damned. Or perhaps it's the cutural expectation that women are supposed to "internalize" everything and turn their aggression "inwards" on themselves, "inwards" including spouses/significant others and their own children.

Ideals are a wonderful thing, just as long as they don't blind you to reality.

gmanry
6th June 2003, 23:11
Actually,

I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I don't actually expect much from my fellow human beings these days. Pleasantly, I am surprised from time to time though. :D

Yes, human sexual behavior is a completely looney thing, waaay to complex.

I just don't like hearing all the pseudo-scientific excuses for stupid behavior. I can understand human frailty, I don't cotton much to institutionalized human frailty, disguised as biology,...especially when I am fronting the bill with my tax dollars.

I like your bronze age motif, I may have to borrow that at some time in the future. My personal favorite is the hairless apes route, flinging feces, 'cause most of the time we aren't doing much better.

I am actually not much of an idealist. Bad human behavior doesn't surprise me much anymore. I just like to bust up the "common censors" out there in the world. The one's who adhere to simple theories to excuse the way things are. It is the iconoclast in me.

No doubt the stress of military service affects domestic violence rates in men and women, and it is equally reprehensible. However, the military doesn't secretly condone these behaviors, just the sexual exploits of its male members in foreign lands at the expense of the cultural mores of other people, or in Nevada, take your pick. ;)

kirigirisu
6th June 2003, 23:31
Originally posted by gmanry
I like your bronze age motif, I may have to borrow that at some time in the future. My personal favorite is the hairless apes route, flinging feces, 'cause most of the time we aren't doing much better.


Thanks.

I enjoy the hairless ape motif myself, with the added "rooting around in their own filth like the swine they're forbidden to eat" descriptor added. :D

wendy ongaro
7th June 2003, 01:58
Chuck,

i just realized your a med student, aren't you? A pet peeve you are going to develop really quickly (predictably your intern year) is looking at someone who can't count how many sex partners they've had in the last six months, nonetheless their lifetime, and then get really upset with you that you can't immediately cure their warts, herpes, etc... or drink a fifth a day and have no desire to quit, and then expect you, as the representative of the health care profession, to get THEM a liver transplant for their alcoholic cirrhosis- and have everyone else pay for it.

You got a little taste of this pet peeve, and now that I've reread the thread, I realize I went off on you some. I apologize.

I've done alot of crazy things in my life (never gone to a brothel), but I always recognized THAT THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES, and when the consequences invariably occurred, I took them...as one would say... like a man. :D I'm not tolerant of others who don't live this way.

You are right. we don't know alot about HPV. I just know, I get tired of looking at it :p

Chuck Munyon
9th June 2003, 18:31
Wendy,
I already know exactly what you mean. It's unbelievable to me the number of people who take better care of their cars than they do their own bodies, all the while saying "I know I shouldn't do this, but...," only to start pointing fingers as soon as it's time to pay the piper. Even worse is the "By the time I develop (x disease) because of my (y behavior) they'll have invented a cure for it anyway!" Perhaps they will, and the cure will likely be painful, invasive, have complications, and cost someone (most likely not the patient) a whole lot of money.
I'm sorry I quibbled with you; as a personal bias I tend to think of protected sex as way-overhyped as a risk vs. poor diet, lack of exercise, etc., but it's still a risk with possible grievous consequences nonetheless, and I shouldn't have been so callous.

Chuck

wendy ongaro
9th June 2003, 23:42
Friends?? Truce??

Actually, I was reading a journal today over lunch and the FDA just approved a test screening for HPV in women with abnormal PAP smears. won't do much for my asymptomatic guys, but hey, they don't get cervical cancer. ;)

Soulend
10th June 2003, 11:14
Interesting discussion on what the U.S. military does or does not push, presumably by men who have served in same and consequently know what the hell they are talking about?

The military-specific psychoanalysis and discussion of the effects of testosterone, etc. is quite unneccesary, however. The simple fact is that if you were to take any group of young men, say from a nearby community college or local auto plant, fling them continually to the far corners of the earth, away from friends, family, and "normal" women with which they may share a cultural connection, where sex and booze is commonly cheap and more often than not thrust at you - what do you think would happen? You're going to have a group of drunken civilian fellows getting laid and steadily depleting their paychecks, that's what.

How many drunken and lecherous conventioneers are conveniently forgotten by the same people who trot out Tailhook (what the hell was that - 12 years ago now?) as proof that the military consists of nothing but immoral slobs? I don't buy it. The military is made up from regular society, and as such there will be aberrations - just like in the civilian sector. I for one would be interested to see a statistical comparison of crimes, sexual or otherwise, committed by young soldiers, sailors and Marines vs. those committed by any other numerically equal segment of society of the same age group. We all know what paragons of virtue are to be found in frat-houses across the nation, after all. The only difference, I think, is that if a civilian does something wrong it is on page 8B of the paper and forgotten the next day, while if it's a military member you get made-for-TV movies about it for years and it is considered by civilians to be the status quo for behavior in the armed forces into the next century.

I've been in the military for 16-odd years now and guess what? Not a soul has ever told me to solicit the services of a prostitute, beat my wife, have sex with multiple partners, or anything else like that. The brass don't have the slightest interest in how many people I scrog. There is no 'behavior conditioning', or secret-squirrel agenda. You are expected to do your job, and are held to far higher standards than most any civilian. It is, in fact, illegal to commit adultery or to have oral or anal sex with anyone, even your wife.

What is the reason that some military men associate with prostitutes? Simple. Desire and availability. If you take a young man and stick him in the field or on a ship far from home for weeks and months at a time, when he comes out he's going to be horny. He's also going to have money, since there is little to spend it on in said places. Now, if there happen to be a bevy of whores where he comes out, as there so often appear to be, busily hawking their wares and flirting with him...well, it isn't difficult to guess what happens next. I wonder what the average civilian 20-something would do in Pattaya Beach, Thailand, or Olongapo City, P.I. after a month or two in the jungle...naaa...say it ain't so... :rolleyes:

seskoad
14th July 2003, 05:51
>A Singaporean was on holiday in Malaysia........He was sitting in a
>Delifrance shop having his coffee, croissants, bread, butter &jam.
>A Malaysian man who was chewing gum, sat down next to him and started a
>casual conversation.
>
>"You must be a Singaporean right?" the Malaysian asked.
>
>"Yes.......how ! did you know?"...........asked the Singaporean.
>Malaysian: "Because you Singaporeans eat the whole bread right?"
>"Yes of course." replied the Singaporean.
>
>Malaysian: "We don't. We Malaysians only eat what's inside the crusts. We
>collect the crusts into containers, recycle them and then make them into
>croissants and sell them across to Singapore."
>
>The Malaysian then had a smirk on his face while the Singaporean listened
>in silence.
>Malaysian: "Do you eat the jam with the bread?"
>Singaporean: "Of course."
>
>Malaysian (chuckling): "Ah ha.......We don't. We Malaysians eat only
>fresh fruits grown in Malaysiafor breakfast and then we put all the
>peels, seeds and other left-overs in a container, recycle them, transform
>them into jam and then sell it across to you in Singapore."
>
>The Singaporean had enough.........and he retorted........
>
>Singaporean:! "Do you have sex in Malaysia?"
>Malaysian: "Of course we do and we are much better at it and we have sex
>more often than you Singaporeans and that is why we do not have population
>problem in Malaysia."
>
>Singaporean: "I see.......and do you wear protection?"
>Malaysian: "Of course we wear condoms. We are the condom manufacturing
>capital of the world......"
>
>Singaporean: "And what do you do with the condoms after you have used
>them?"
>Malaysian: "We throw them away, of course!"
>
>Singaporean: "Well, we don't. Let me share a secret with you. In
>Singapore, the government secretly collects them and puts them into a
>container, recycle them, melt them down into chewing gum and sell them
>across to Malaysiafor people like you to chew on and that is
>why we banned chewing gum in Singapore!"