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chris davis 200
12th June 2003, 13:12
Hi guys,

anyine know if there are any online resourses with pictures from The Daito ryu Aiki Budo Densho Zen Jukikan Mokuroku.

This was a manual of Daito Ryu techniques compiled by Takuma Hisa at the asashi News Dojo.

I would love to see some of those old pics!!


cheers
chris:D

Walker
12th June 2003, 16:53
If this is what is more commonly referred to as the Shoden. I believe that it is closely held by the Takumakai and they seem to have kept good control of any copies.

Anybody know how they have kept the lid on so well? Do they have any special policies? Do they pursue legal action when necessary?

chris davis 200
12th June 2003, 17:05
Yeh this is what i thought! A bit of a bugger really but i kinda understand the reasoning.

Would be nice for a couple of images to be released - especially if they include pics of Sokaku Takeda.

cheers
chris

Walker
12th June 2003, 23:18
It is my understanding that the photographs are of students who went to the photography department at Asahi news after class and performed the techniques - not Takeda, Ueshiba or Hisa.
In a sense this is similar to Ueshiba’s Budo Training in which students posed for the sketches.

A. M. Jauregui
13th June 2003, 00:54
I certainly do not have a copy of any of the volumes. Guess they have trust issues. If I recall correctly it is 11 volumes long. Some of them are useless (mainly demo) technique volumes, however. I would not mind having a copy *pretty please* but other then helping me recall techniques I do not see how it would really be of any help. Plus I focus more on the jujutsu while the soden in more about aiki waza.

CKohalyk
13th June 2003, 01:37
Sorry ya'll. The Soden is reserved for 8dans only. It is compiled of 11 books that are split into different sections, including a police training book and a womens self-defense book. I have had the honour of flipping through the books, and feeling some of the effects, and I have two words for you:


OU



CH


Jyrki-san may know more since he is really friendly with my sensei and Mori-sensei.

Later,

CK

don
13th June 2003, 04:06
I think Aikido Journal published a series for a while taken from the Soden, no?

Walker
13th June 2003, 16:20
Yes, Aikido Journal did publish some techniques “from the Soden” but they did their own photography with a current practitioner who’s name escapes me. They often accompanied great little articles from Mr. Mori which I really miss.

CKohalyk
13th June 2003, 17:25
For those who want to know, here is a break down of the volumes:

Vol. 1-5 Are mostly Aikido-like waza, as they were taught by Ueshiba.
Vol. 6 is labelled Asahi-ryu jujutsu ?iˆ®—¬?_?p) thanks to Ueshiba.
Vol. 7-9 are called the Tokui Soden, and are pure DR as taught by Sokaku.
Vol. 10 is a police manual where they use this really cool cuff on the end of a length of chain and tie baddies up something serious!
Vol. 11 is labelled Josei Goshinjustu (Women's Self-defense)

At the Takumakai we would do the 118 waza that were laid out by Tokimune as a sorta renmei-like, break 'em in stage. Then you would learn Soden. Amatsu sensei only teaches Soden coz he tries to "Keep it real" as they say.

There you have it.

Best,

CK

don
13th June 2003, 17:37
Originally posted by Walker
Yes, Aikido Journal did publish some techniques “from the Soden” but they did their own photography with a current practitioner who’s name escapes me.

I would guess that that was Kawabe. But there were some old photos, too. I recall two fellows in Western suits and a bowler hat, too I think, with one arresting the other.

don
13th June 2003, 18:22
Originally posted by CKohalyk
Amatsu sensei only teaches Soden coz he tries to "Keep it real" as they say.

Have you trained/do you train with him?

Nathan Scott
14th June 2003, 02:30
[Post deleted by user]

CKohalyk
14th June 2003, 05:42
Originally posted by don


Have you trained/do you train with him?

Yes, I trained with him. He was my secondary sensei. I knew him before he decided to come back and open his own dojo (to keep it real). When I wasn't at Asahi Newspaper I would be in Kishiwada, so I would stop at his dojo. He only teaches on Saturdays and many Takumakai people from all over Kansai come to learn Soden-waza from him on the weekend. It can be a little tense as you can probably imagine...

Mr.Scott, I concur with your "juikkan" statement, but to tell the truth, I have only ever heard it called the "Soden" or "Soden-shuu."

Regards,

Chad Kohalyk

don
15th June 2003, 05:14
Originally posted by CKohalyk
...many Takumakai people from all over Kansai come to learn Soden-waza from him on the weekend. It can be a little tense as you can probably imagine...

He's pretty outspoken about DR. Personally, though, you'd be hard put to find a sweeter guy.

Chris Li
15th June 2003, 08:25
Originally posted by Nathan Scott


This is the formal name for the "Soden" (inherited teachings), though I have "Jukikan" written down as "Juikkan". I don't know what the kanji is supposed to be for this word, but it might be referring to there being eleven volumes in this catalog. No idea what a jukikan might be.

Not knowing what the kanji of this catalog is, I would hazard to guess that it might be translated as:

"Daito ryu Aikibudo Great Eleven Volume Catalog of Transmission"


Originally posted by Nathan Scott


This is the formal name for the "Soden" (inherited teachings), though I have "Jukikan" written down as "Juikkan". I don't know what the kanji is supposed to be for this word, but it might be referring to there being eleven volumes in this catalog. No idea what a jukikan might be.

Not knowing what the kanji of this catalog is, I would hazard to guess that it might be translated as:

"Daito ryu Aikibudo Great Eleven Volume Catalog of Transmission"

The kanji are (if they come through on your browser):「大東流合気武道伝書全十一巻」

Basically, it breaks down as:

1) "Daito ryu Aikibudo" (of course)
2) "Densho", or "written transmission" (there is an implication that something secret is being transmitted).
3) "Zen", or "complete"
4) "Juikkan", or "eleven volumes"

I might phrase it as something like "Daito ryu Aiki Budo Secret Record Complete Eleven Volumes", but I'm sure there's a catchier way to do it :).

Best,

Chris