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shawn clements
13th June 2003, 00:57
Greetings Fellow E-Budoers,

I am new to your forum and so far I am impresseed with the respect all the members show not only one another but for other arts as well. So if I can get right to the point: I have always been curious about Shorinji Kempo. The times I have seen it demonstrtaed I have always been impressed by the fact that it seems like a pretty complete art as it has not only punching and kicking, but throwing and joint locking as well. The only thing it lacks from what I've seen is groundwork. With that in mind, I am interested in hearing from SK folks who have been tested in a real self defense situation and how well SK worked or didn't work. I know one fellow who has been doing SK for many years and he told me how it always worked for him in his job as a bouncer. Not a big man, he broke one guy's ribs and threw another guy over a bar when things got out of hand.

Any SK'ers out there have any similiar stories? ANy feedback will be appreciated.


Thanks Folks,

The Monk

David Dunn
13th June 2003, 11:33
Shawn,
Welcome to e-budo. I doubt that you'll find any Shorinji Kenshi recounting tales of battle and honour, even where they do have such tales. I certainly don't expect you to hear tales of broken bones. Shorinji Kempo atemi waza are expressly designed to not cause damage to the fundamental structure of the body. Anyone caught bragging about suchlike would expect to be reprimanded at the very least by his or her seniors and peers.

Shorinji Kempo lacks nothing. It is practiced as 'budo' not a sport or martial art. It's techniques are carefully systematised to teach the principles of practical self-defence, but that is not the purpose of training. In 'bu' is implied strength and effective techniques, the pre-requisite of being a good budoka. It is also 'do'. In it's own terms it is complete. It only ever compares itself to other martial systems in terms of attitudes and ideas, not a critique of their waza.

The best self-defence is kevlar, knives and guns. Shorinji Kempo is more than self-defence.

Tripitaka of AA
13th June 2003, 12:50
I trained in Shorinji Kempo for five years. During that time, and in the subsequent fifteen years I have never been defeated in a Self-Defence type situation. I sustained no injuries and I have never been charged with an offence by our Police Forces.

I think that this is fairly good evidence of the street effectiveness of Shorinji Kempo.


Perhaps not the answer you wanted, but then... are you really seeking the answer, or tales of violence and conflict? As any martial artist of the Budo mind will tell you, resorting to physical violence is a failure.

tony leith
13th June 2003, 14:05
I have to admit I've undergone a bit of a Damascene conversion on this lately - I used to think to think that relevance to self defence had to underpin everything we do. I still think it does in point of fact underpin Shorinji kempo as an internal mathematic - it's what stops it from being a particularly exotic dance form - but I now think it's too reductive to see it in these terms. The great variety and complexity of juho waza in Shorinji kempo might not be optimal for self defence in some senses, but it is integral to S. K as a gyo. Any martial art practised with rigour wil yield self defence benefits, but measuring the worth of budo in terms of the ability to mete out (or take) punishment is missing the point totally.



Tony leith

Ruth Anderson
13th June 2003, 14:42
As I have said in other forums (fora?) I have 'used' a Shorinji Kempo technique once. Against an old, drunk man. Hardly a life or death situation.

But I use other things that I have learnt from Kempo every single day - patience, co-operation, self-discipline, self-confidence.

These have proved far more useful to me in every day life.

luar
13th June 2003, 15:19
Ground work is great but not effective against more than two opponents which to me is a likely street situation. This does not mean it does not have value but it shows that not every way is perfect.

Bar Fights - I will never get into a fight at a bar. Committing to that statement means it is just not going to happen. You may say that is unrealistic but think about how most bar fights start and you understand where I am coming from. The funny thing is that before I studied Shorinji, bar fights were highly probable.

Violent crime is a reality but they can have my wallet - I have nothing to prove and thanks to debit cards, I never carry my life savings with me.

Random acts of violence are just that. It is a consideration but I rather they not dictate my training because then it rules me. Of course I would never to go to a football match over in the UK with my Real Madrid shirt because its all a matter of balance - the balance to know how you should defend yourself and how you should react appropriately around situations and circumstances. When I was a kid an uncle who was a police officer once said to me that if he can finish his career without ever using his gun, he would consider himself a success.

David Dunn
13th June 2003, 15:40
Originally posted by tony leith
I used to think to think that relevance to self defence had to underpin everything we do.... but I now think it's too reductive to see it in these terms.

It's almost a paradox isn't it? To be a budoka you need 'bu'. That means you need effective techniques, and every technique we learn is be appropriate and effective for the situation that it is designed to handle. Relevance to self-defence does underpin everything we do.

There are those who (initially at least) are more interested in the bu part, and those who lean too much to the 'do' part. Both aspects are needed to make Shorinji Kempo 'complete'. Without both parts it is impossible to train with the correct attitude required by Kumite Shutai. Isn't that why Kaiso kept asking for the Kenshi's motivation for continuing training, to check that we move from only bu to budo?

Which reminds me to start a new thread...

David Dunn
13th June 2003, 15:52
Originally posted by luar

Violent crime is a reality but they can have my wallet - I have nothing to prove and thanks to debit cards, I never carry my life savings with me... Random acts of violence are just that. It is a consideration but I rather they not dictate my training because then it rules me.

Hear, hear. Sensei says "if someone has a knife give them what they want, unless they want your life, then you have to fight."


Originally posted by luar

Of course I would never to go to a football match over in the UK with my Real Madrid shirt because its all a matter of balance - the balance to know how you should defend yourself and how you should react appropriately around situations and circumstances.

Well, the class act that is the supporters of Liverpool Football Club have worn Real Madrid shirts, and flown the Spanish Royal flag, to their games this season when Real played Manchester United. Last season it was Leverkeusen's, Real the season before. You get the picture. I suppose it's the closest they'll get to the Bernebau. :D