Boys, do you have a good relationship with your dad?

[Charlie Kondek]

Why or why not?

I know this seems weird, but I am curious.

[Jay Bell]

Sure do...my Dad's an awesome guy.

[Charlie Kondek]

Need more details, Jay. Is that why your relationship is good, because your dad is an awesome guy? Then all awesome guys should be good dads, or...?

[Bushi Jon]

My Dad was better as a pal than a father. He treated us kids great allways ran around on mom though. My father suffered from alcholism though he did not drink his last few years on the earth was a great guy but sucked as a father

[Shitoryu Dude]

My dad was/is a role model by example. Comes across as a kind of stern, serious type, but is actually something of a kid inside. He's closing in on 80 now and is still quite active physically and mentally.

:beer:

[elder999]

Details, Charlie, jeez, where to start.

My dad was a boxing and judo coach in the Navy, so he was my first martial arts teacher.

He was also an Episcopal priest, a licensed clinical social worker, a professor of history at Marist college, and senior Protestant chaplain for the state of New York.

He was an excellent teacher, about everything.

He was human as hell; he had a terrible temper, and a good sense of humor.

I posted this about my dad, elsewhere on this forum:


He taught me to sew, cook and clean house, among other things. I asked him why I was had to know how to do all those things, and he said,"I don't want you thinking that that's what a woman is for."
When I asked what a woman was for, he replied "When you can do all these things for yourself, you'll have figured that out."

Long after I figured that out, I got married. Just prior to the ceremony, my father explained to me that a man can't always be gentle-not with co workers, not with children, and mostly not with himself, and that one should view one's spouse as someone they strive to always be gentle with, even in anger,and that we do so, not for them, but for ourselves

That’s pretty much what life with my dad was like….

When he got sick…..nearly 20 years ago, now, well, those of you who are familiar with Kubler Ross’s stages of death will be surprised to know that he skipped right from denial, over anger and depression to acceptance-it was this attitude (coupled with some bargaining in the form of experimental treatments at Johns Hopkins) that allowed him 3 productive years with a diagnosis of liver cancer-something that normally killed people after 3 months at that time…..

My son and I have a good relationship- I’ll let others call it “awesome,” and they do-entirely because of my relationship with my dad.

I still talk to him every day…..

[Soulend]

Neat poll, Charlie. My Dad and I had our ups and downs when I was younger, partially because if you look up 'Old School' in the encyclopedia..there he is. He was very stern and old fashioned in values, expectations and manners. In my wisdom of youth I could not understand why he was such a stickler for things, although I attributed it to having been a Captain in SAA (then attached to the British 8th Army) in WWII, and of course due to him being, well, old...he was 50 when I was born after all. He wasn't humorless..in fact he could be funny as hell and downright bawdy, which contrasted so much with his extremely polite and charming public self.

But as I got older a funny thing happened. I became more and more like him, and could see his points of view more clearly. I even picked up many of his phrases and mannerisms - even long after I had moved out of the house and started my own family. We got along better and better as I realized that he had a lot of wisdom to share, and since he had seen and been through so much there were invaluable things to be learned by listening to him. He has been gone for several years now, but I hope that if it is possible for him to see me, as my wife keeps insisting, that he is not too disappointed. Hopefully my son will see me in a similar light one day.

[RDeppe]

Got to go with Kind Of.

Up into my early twenties it was plain bad. But then dad started having heart problems etc and mellowed out quite a bit. So now in his gentler kinder state he's a pretty nice guy.

[elder999]

Originally posted by RDeppe
Got to go with Kind Of.

Up into my early twenties it was plain bad. But then dad started having heart problems etc and mellowed out quite a bit. So now in his gentler kinder state he's a pretty nice guy.


My experience, and what I've observed in others, is that the older
sons get, the more we start to get along with our dads.....
....sort of like we develop the sense to realize how right they were, and also become more like "peers"-for lack of a better word.

[Chiburi]

I almost voted for 'kind of', but then realized that between me and my father it's too emotionless to be a true relationship. We've never really gotten that close. Of course we talk and so on, but it's like there's a whole damn canyon between us. So how's that?

Cheers,

[gendzwil]

When I was 18 my parents were really stupid, and somehow by the time I was 25 they had gotten really smart...

Dad's a great guy, we see each other at least once a week and go golfing together in summer and skiing in winter. He's also the smartest guy I know personally (geophysics prof).

[RDeppe]

Originally posted by elder999



My experience, and what I've observed in others, is that the older
sons get, the more we start to get along with our dads.....
....sort of like we develop the sense to realize how right they were, and also become more like "peers"-for lack of a better word.

In general I'd have to agree.

[elder999]

Originally posted by gendzwil
He's also the smartest guy I know personally (geophysics prof).

I've never met a geophysicist I didn't like. They're practical, patient, and in general......very...grounded.(nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!:p )

[RDeppe]

I'm awed by people that have good relations with their fathers'.

I didn't & neither did my brothers & sisters. Prison, suicide (attempts), drug addiction, major health problems, adultry, etc have changed everyone involved.

My dad was a d---. Now he is not-- he has changed a lot. There is a lot under the rug.

Sorry.

[Shitoryu Dude]

Not everybody who fathers children is really up to being a Dad. Those of us who had willing and good dads should be grateful for that. I think all of us grew up knowing at least one family where "dad" was absent or worse.

I remember when I was a teenager the last thing I wanted to be was like my old man. Odd then that as I get older I find myself turning into him in many ways - right down to the buzz cut and an unwillingness to suffer fools. The older I get the more I realize that he had just been down the same road first and already seen all the crap that goes on along the way.

Perhaps the best lessons he taught were to always be prepared, don't take gambles you can't afford to lose (and hedge your bets along the way), don't panic, always pack sufficient firepower, don't trust people foolishly, and while a good day's work is a good thing the weekend is always more important.

:beer:

[David T Anderson]

No...our characters, personalities and interests are too different. I never wanted to be like him, tho' he's a perfectly respectable person, and he never understood what I wanted in life, nor gave me more than a little support [although he's been generous financially to me and his grandchildren over the years]. Funny how people who would never be friends find themselves in the same family...

[wendy ongaro]

My relationship with my dad has been more like a son than a daughter. How many daughters go toe to toe with their fathers when they "come of age?"

My father was three people-

before I was 11- he was a gentle giant. I saw him lose his temper a hand full of times. He taught me how to hunt, fish, and love the outdoors. we used to watch Kung Fu movies together all the time and 'do karate'. He was (and still is) and incredible cook. I basically took his dreams and made them my own (Montana, horses, bow hunting)

shortly before my 11th birthday, he became really ill. After a few weeks, every joint in his body began to swell. He was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors started him on the only treatment they had- high doses of prednisone.

The medication really didn't work well. He was in excruciating pain all the time. the medication also made him gain 30 lbs, which made his joints hurt more, and it made him really moody. By the time I was 12, he had become physically and verbally abusive to both me and my mom.

When I think back about that time, my heart breaks. He must have felt so lonely, so helpless. My mom is a very helpless person- a fun, funny, exciting, helpless person. My dad in many ways was mom and dad- he would go to work (he did all the security technology for Washington, Montana, Idaho, and Alaska for the postal service), and then come home and take care of me ( make dinner, laundry, clean). Then with this disease and medication, it must have been overwhelming.
And he couldn't hunt or hike. He could fish, but not very comfortably.

when I was 16, I started to fight back against his crap. We couldn't be in the same room together. I absolutely hated him. He was a bully. This continued until I was 26. everything I said had to be contradicted, every decision I made backhandedly criticized. Nothing was good enough.

finally, when I was 26, he made a scene in front of my extended family. I stood up to him, and he ordered me outside. we went toe to toe. I think I've posted the rest on another thread. Well, needless to say, something changed after that day. He's not the man I knew when I was a little girl. I think he died many years ago. But we get along better. He doesn't try to bully me, and he respects my space and decisions. I can actually say I enjoy his company now, and one of these days, I hope he'll let me take him fishing for cutthroats out on the tongue river. we'll see.

[kaishaku]

My father was my first martial arts teacher. He taught me how to box and the "judo tricks" he learned in the Army. I was apparently a handful as a child so he thought enrolling me in newly opened dojo to learn some of his "judo tricks" might give an outlet for some of my energies. He really supported my training in judo/jujutsu . . . until the first time I kicked my younger brother during a typical sibling fight. That was the first time I heard that "kicking was dirty fighting" and actually saw him angry.

He was a man of honour, the Chief of Surgery at the local hospital and the one man who taught me more than my Sensei.

He died five years ago during my birthday celebration at the cottage. I really miss him.

Frederick D. Smith

[icynorth]

My Dad is the reason I study the arts. Though he is not a big man and never studied the martial arts, he is everything I envision as a true warrior.
Typical as a kid and a teen, he was an ass to me. As an adult in a crappy marriage always borrowing cash he lectured me non stop. Always making sure I got myself out of messes myself, though he was well off.
I grew and remarried a great proffesional girl, had some great kids and stuck with the same job for now a decade, etc etc. We get along great. More like chums. He would do anything for us.
Example, last year buying a car for the family. Bank didn't like something. He gave me 20,000 cash interest free. When I paid it back, becuase I paid it back he gave it back to me so I could buy his grandkids a house. The man is a true family patriarch, a God.
Always the typical Taffy (thats a welshman for those who don't know) Still the one armed hugs at Christmas LOL. I love him dearly, he is my inspiration for pretty much everything I do. Getting into his 70's now and living an amazing life of Mexico, N Carolina, Greece etc and lots of golf. He will outlive me


Sorry if I got goopy:(

[PHILBERT]

Hell.
No.

My parents divorced when I was 5. My father tried to buy me love, buying me all these toys. He quit his $50,000 a year office job to work in a factory (think 14 years ago here folks) for $15,000. If he had stayed there at his office job, he would be the president of the company since he was like 4th in command and all the people above him dropped dead or retired.

He never payed child support unless we garnished his pay check. He beat my mother, and I remember him hitting her a few times when I was little.

He never did anything like with my brothers such as play sports with me, take me to the park to play football, baseball, etc. Thats probably why I am nothing like my brothers.

He never payed child support unless we garnished his pay check.

He bounced from job to job in warehouses, logistics companies, etc. And this guy has TWO business management degrees from TWO colleges. University of Arizona and Phoenix College.

He never payed child support unless we garnished his pay check.

To this day he still will not work at a job that will pay him good money. He won't use his degrees to get a good paying job, and works at a Car Max Auto Store doing some thing or other.

He never payed child support unless we garnished his pay check.

To be honest I hate being seen in public with him. We are complete opposites physically. He is short and fat, and I am tall and skinny. Our clothing styles are opposite, he wears crummy clothing that looks like something lower class people would wear. I walk around wearing nice clothing, casual, etc. This guy lies all the time and makes it obvious. And his lies aren't exactly laughable lies such as "I invented the question mark!" or something. It's like "Yeah when I was in the service, blah blah blah I nuked Vietnam or something".

His normal lies are along the lines of this. "When I worked as a police officer in Phoenix, I was called to a robbery of a alcohol store. The man ran out the door as I pulled up and ran down the side walk a block while I chased him in the car. I pulled in front of him, jumped out and tackled him. I then returned to the scene of the crime with him in the car to give him to my superior. Your mom saw me on TV and nearly freaked out."

I asked her, she said she has no idea wtf he is talking about.

He never payed child support unless we garnished his pay check.

Another classic "I was in a high speed chase with a guy, we had to of been doing at least 220. If my car had wings on it I'd of taken off in the air probably."

"When I tried out to be a police officer for Fort Worth after your mom and I divorced, I had to pick up one of those fake dummy bodies up and travel with it 100 yards as a fitness test. The dummy was about 175 lbs. and I threw him over my shoulder and ran it within 45 seconds. The city said it was the fastest time ever, and that NO ONE has ever done that, most people just drag the body the 100 yards."

Keep in mind, he weighed over 400 when my parents divorced. Now he is around 290. So that story above is a load of crap, plus he never did try out.

He never payed child support unless we garnished his pay check.

[A. M. Jauregui]

My dad is overall a nice guy, a bit opinionated, but who is not about something or other...

He has been married to my mom for a little over 40 years. While he has done everything that a father and husband should do I have to say that he is more of a pal then a dad. By this I mean he left all of the parenting to my mom - everything from stern discipline to treats.

I believe that he treats me like a pal for I am the spitting image of his sister who died years back. Every now and then I have the feeling that he is going to call me by her name. *I have mixed emotions on that issue...*

Overall he is a good father - even though he goes off on tangents and lectures at me like I am a student in one of his history classes *grrr*.

My mom was the one who did martial arts - karate, so...

[Jody Holeton]

My dad is my hero....

He's always been there for me: worked the overtime, bled for me when I was getting my ass kicked, backed me up when EVERYONE turned away from me, etc. etc. etc.

He has always walked the line even though he could have walked away from me, my mom and all of life's responsibilities.

He has done bad things, I know hes not perfect but he changed his whole life just for his family. Thats heart and hardwork.

Even now when I am at my lowest, he is waiting for me with a smile, a hug and a place I can call home.

He's the best! Even after 4 heart attacks he wants to take me to Cedar Point for roller coasters this summer!:D

One day I hope to be half the man he is!

[Evan London]

I have no realtionship with my "birth father". Haven't spoken to him in about 20 years. During and after my parents divorce, when I was about 13, he showed his real stripes. Selfish, jealous, childish, mean spirited. He forsook the religous background he had raised us in, was late in paying his measly child support payments, began doing drugs and eventually married the woman who gave my brother (then about 15) and I drugs, refused to pay for anything that we needed like college tuition for my brother (even though he was a fairly well-paid lawyer), never attended our games or events, demonstrated jealously of the accomplishments of his own children (like when my brother got into Columbia U business school), and was generally a foolish, shelfish man.

Fortunately for me, my mom re-married a great man who I can look up to and who was unselfish with his time and affection. He's my dad through and through. I have a great relationship with him.

Ev

[Charlie Kondek]

Wow. These are great. Thanks for sharing.

I know Jody's dad, by the way! Indeed he is a great guy. Real fun to hang out with.

My dad and I definitely fall into the pals category, partially due to the fact that my parents divorced and most of the time we have spent together is less of the "do your homework and brush your teeth" variety and more of the "wanna go to the movies?" variety. These days we're almost more like silly drinking buddies than father and son.

I guess one of the things I was hoping to take away from the thread would be: What do dads do right with their sons (or daughters!) and what do they do wrong? And what do the sons do wrong (plenty, I expect).

[wendy ongaro]

What my dad did right...

he role played so many possibilities with me and shared with me his passion for life and his love of so many things in this world. He took as good a care of myself and my mother as he could. He was nurturing and took responsibility for others to the best of his abilities. When I was a littler girl, he and my grandmother really taught me what love was.

What my dad did wrong...

he was human in a horrible, chronic situation. Instead of examining all the possibilities and trying to make changes, he chose the route of denial, trying to continue on business as usual with his terrible arthritis. In the end, something had to give, and his behavior towards myself and my mother was what sufferred.

He also had to learn to trust me, as I'm a pretty with it person.

What I did wrong...

It took along time for me to accept the fact that he had changed. I wanted, and often demanded, the father I had as a little girl. That man is gone. I had to reach a point where I was going to set some iron cold boundries on his behavior and come to terms with the fact that I couldn't control him, but I could control myself. I realized my anger with him only hurt myself- it really didn't affect him one bit, and let it go. It was non-productive. Once I did, I was finally able to see through his eyes through those horrible years and have some compassion for his position. I do not in any way condone his behavior- but I understand how he was thinking (or not thinking) and see that it really had little to do with me personally, at all. And once I understood that, the pain of the abuse healed itself.

[Phil Farmer]

I am interested as to why you asked this question and even more interested by the answers. For a family and marital (no not martial, though they can often be the same)therapist this was a question I enjoyed reading about.

My personal experience makes me vote no on the poll. My father and I rarely have agreed or gotten along. It took until I was 30 to quit being angry. Now, almost twenty years after that, I have a neutral relationship with him, I am respectful but there is not an emotional connection of any sort.

The missing ingredient? As a therapist and a son I have often pondered what dads (or moms) do that is important. One of my conclusions is unconditional love, of course. The second, in my opinion is consistency. If dad is a stern disciplinarian, that's okay as long as he is consistent. If dad is a push over, well okay, if he is consistent. Children (and relationships) have to have "anchors" to hold on to and if it is consistency and unconditional love, I think everything else is add on.

Phil Farmer

[Cody]

I see that girls are allowed to play too :D

The Good things dad did as a dad...: too many to count, but like Phil the Farmer says... he is consistent, which gave me security.

The thing I didn't like about my dad: too much of a sissy. "Stop letting mom walk all over you!" That's what I told him the last time he visited me in Canada. My mom was a judo brown belt, my dad was ... sh!t. My mom was educated in school, my dad was "self-educated". My mom got paid more, she was the manager. My dad was only a lowly clerk...

Hating my mom was easy. She was physically abused by a drunkard father, and so she carries the abusive parenting on her back. But despite the fact that my father never did anything to stop her, I can't even get angry at him.

The most difficult thing with my father, and his biggest fault as a father... is that he is such a nice, blameless guy, it was difficult for me to rebel against him as an adolescent. It was painfully clear to me, even at the time, that I was rebelling against him only because I was 16. Dad was embarrassing to me, not because of anything he said or did, but because I was 16. He makes me look like such a bad, ungreatful child, it's all his fault :D

I voted "kind of" for the poll. Long distance relationship is difficult; so is the cultural/generation gap. But despite all the "westernization" Canada is putting me through, a lot of my father's traditional values stayed in me.

He used to lecture my brother and I all the time, "you need to be demanding to yourself; gentle and forgiving to others". I like to think that's why I choose to train karate and aikido.

-Cody

[Charlie Kondek]

Originally posted by Phil Farmer
I am interested as to why you asked this question and even more interested by the answers.

Aw, heck. I'll just come out and admit it.

Because I'm gonna be a daddy, and it's a boy.

:D

I just realized recently that I am without blueprint when it comes to normal father-son relationships because I didn't have one. I'm not that worried about it, but I am thinking about it a lot.

It seems to me (ask me again in fifteen years or so) that what fathers do to screw up their sons (or daughters) is become too tyrannical when trying to mold them into decent people. What sons do to screw things up for their dads is go through the "dumb at 18 smart at 25" thing Neil mentioned. But, it occurs to me, the kid is a kid, the dad is the grown-up; dad's got the bigger job.

[wimp_lo]

No relationship whatsoever. I had good relationships with the father figures in my life (step-father, uncles, grandfather) - even the ones who had to lean on me when I got out of line.

[Tamdhu]

One of the greatest parts of growing up is getting to know your dad as a fellow human being, and not just the arbitrator/decisionmaker/provider/hammerofgod of yore. ; )

I reach various stages in life and realize with a laugh that I'm very close to a space or way of being that I remember seeing my father in from the point of view of a child. That's when I think, "Oh, THIS is what he was going through then!" or whatever. I built an animal pen recently after a lifetime of never working with wood at all.

I laughed the whole time because I was constantly standing around looking at the thing to figure out solutions to big and little problems as they arose, just like my Dad did. I'd then get in a 'fugue' state as I enacted the solution, strutting around proudly but a little self-consciously with my new power tools, trying hard (and too often failing) not to snap at anyone who asked questions or got in the way, just like Dad did.

In the end, it all worked out pretty good, just like Dad's many creations and 'fixes' over the years of my childhood.

Funny!

Dads rule.

[Mike Williams]

Charlie, huge congratulations!! Welcome to sleeplesness and poverty!!

Are you going to call him Kano? Kimura maybe?

:D

Cheers,

Mike

[wendy ongaro]

Awesome. Best of wishes to you Charlie.

The best parts of myself come from my father ( and some of my worst). :D

I've been told that raising kids and training horses are not that different. even if you initially screw something up, as long as you recognize the mistake and are consistent in fixing it, they will respond and come around. i.e. don't be afraid to make mistakes. they often aren't as permanent as they may seem, and will often teach you both in the process.

[Onmitsu]

After being estranged for 18 years, I think my Father and I are doing the best we both can to be a good father and son to each other. We're both seperated by several thousand miles so face to face meetings are difficult. Typing on computers make an old Texas cowboy like himself want to kick someone in the teeth for making him feel stupid. Suffice it to say, he doesn't do e-mail. Meanwhile, I hate 'snail-mail'. Thank G-d (or Tony, you pick) for cheap long distance.:)

[Tamdhu]

>Because I'm gonna be a daddy, and it's a boy.

Congratulations!

When a child is born, the world is young again...

(You'll be too busy changing diapers to ponder that too deeply, of course ; )

Cheers to you and yours!

[Tripitaka of AA]

It's taken a few days for me to start reading this thread (Charlie, I had my suspicions from the very first post :D ), and I am mightily impressed by the depth and breadth of the responses. I shall probably need to think a bit more before I commit my conclusions to print, but as a start;

My Dad was 50 when I was born, and he didn't really "do" sports and play-in-the-park stuff. He hadn't done that with my older siblings either, so I wasn't disappointed. He had been a Steward in the Merchant Navy during WW2 and when he quit, he joined an acting company that toured the Far East entertaining the troops (part of E.N.S.A). He remained an actor and managed to create a family of four children on the precarious and unpredictable finances of that world. He met my mum in the touring company and they hooked up on their return in 1947. Three kids from 1949-1955 then a long gap before I raised my "Ugly Head" in 1964.

My older brother and sisters remember a different man. He was 5'1" of Power, Presence and Wisdom. The true Patriarch, Lord of his Realm, King Boss of all he surveyed. He had mellowed by the time I came along. He took me with him on trips to France, I hung out with him during the Summer holidays when he worked in towns away from London. He was at home during the day and I saw more of him as a man of leisure than as an absent Provider, like most other kids.

When I was ten, we had a year of family misfortune, where both he and my mum suffered major illnesses. 1974 was definitely our "annus horribilis". Neither of them were ever quite the same. He softened more and had time to reflect on Life. She ended up bringing in more money than him and it weakened his position as Provider, but the roles were stable enough to carry on as before.

He died ten years ago after a five year fight against Bowel Cancer. This followed a series of illnesses and recoveries that stretched back to '74. He had been a very fit and athletic little man until 60, and absolutely loathed the physical restrictions that illness placed on him. He died when he was 78.

I would like to think I get my good habits from him. I have come to see that many of my bad habits come from my mother. Or did I just create them for myself (blaming other people is one of my bad habits...).

I got to 36 without having children of my own. I now have twin toddlers, a boy and girl aged three and a half. Trying to identify the good and bad things about my childhood, the parenting and the education, is a constant theme. My wife is Japanese and we can compare our differences in an attempt to find an ideal way...

Congratulations Charlie and partner (I assume that you are not having this little boy from your own loins!). Best wishes for the future.

[Soulend]

Since you already told me some time ago Charlie, you already got my congratulations. But congratulations again, just the same! :D

[posiview]

I got on OK with my dad. We didn't really know each other and talk was mostly superficial.

One day I found him dead in his bed.

I wish I'd got to know my dad better!

A bit of advice - get to know your dad (and mam).

[Charlie Kondek]

You guys, thank you. I knew you'd figure out the agenda behind it. It's been a really good thread.

[elder999]

Congratulations, Charlie!

Go buy a dictionary, turn to the letter 'F' and find the page with "fun" on it.

Now tear it out, 'cause it doesn't exist for you anymore!

Just kidding. Kids are a blast!(Other kinds of fun will become scarce, though......)