PDA

View Full Version : This is pretty messed up.



Vapour
27th June 2003, 15:35
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=9&id=264490

Daishi
28th June 2003, 03:13
I think he should be thrown in a jail cell with five large black men named bubba and see how normal and ok he thinks that is....

Dale Heisler

Mekugi
28th June 2003, 07:29
I want to know what the H double hockey sticks Ota meant by this comment:


"If you only took what I said, well of course it would be regarded as an extremely careless remark. I wanted to add that rape is a serious crime that should be punished severely, but the topic had changed and I wasn't given the chance to speak any further. What I wanted to say was that if a man wants to be with somebody of the opposite sex, he should search for a marriage partner," Ota said.


So it is OK to rape gay men? Or someone of the same sex? Maybe this Foo needs to spend some time in Oswald Max. Sec. Penn.

"Look,I'm not gay or nuthin, but from now on you're my missus".

=rawsty

CKohalyk
28th June 2003, 07:48
Found this article (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=kuchikomi&id=250) on that site too. Read the comments at the bottom.


ck

MarkF
28th June 2003, 10:41
From the forum concerning the topic posts (sort of):


...anyway, it's always bothered me being in such a male-heavy kenkyushitsu, but i wouldn't blame any prospective female students walking through the lab from being turned off by some the manga lying around the lab which depicts men having sex with decapitated corpses of women. that said, i think it's probably rather the dirty floor and general disarray that makes the difference since they're probably already used to the manga by now.

still, societal problems aside, i think macarthur is being hyperbolic in suggesting that japan doesn't produce self-respecting, intelligent and independent women. they may be fewer in numbers than they ought to be, but they do exist and i think that any parent who really makes the effort should be able to raise one, even against a backdrop of gang-rape manga and misogynist politicians.


Mark

Mekugi
30th June 2003, 03:15
Well said Mark.

I think a great deal of the sickened sexual practices over here come from three sources at root (remember this is just my opinion)...

A) Emotional immaturity.
B) Sexual Repression.
C) Inferiority complex.


A) (defined). I like to say that in the USA a good family raises their children to be adults. In Japan they seem to raise their children to be children.

I am ever surprised at the level of emotional instability, immaturity and level of childishness that a good deal of the people here display. They seem to have no sense of emotional well being and a great deal of selfishness, which I believe stems from being raised improperly and/or ignored by the Father figure, leaving the mother to raise the children along with the grandparents.

Of course, this stems back from the family having complete and utter control over the lives of their children (especially women), and them not being allowed to make decisions for themselves well into their adult years. This includes the farming families and the postmodern industrial family that began to appear in the latter half of the Meiji restoration. This is still common practice today. Where else do you have 45 year old men ACCEPTABLY living at home and not making decisions for themselves, still be looked after by their parents- nothing to do with their parents being ill or needing help, but entirely to do with the fact that they are “their child”.

B) (defined). Japan has a very low birth rate. They also report to have a very low sexual impulse inside the family environment. Simply put, a great deal of Japanese are not in touch with their own sense of sexuality and for some reason experience a great deal of shame. So, they turn to fantasy and perversion to express their sexual releases. That is not to say that Japan is the only place that has this problem, yet it is still an issue. It also, if you wax Freud, has to do with the way they were raised, this idea stands true as well.

C) (defined). The Japanese society does not "Accept failure". That means they are unable to learn and grow from their experiences naturally and healthily without extreme emotional and psychological torment. Therefore they pump out thousands upon thousands of college and high school graduates that were forced to memorize data and never to theorize and nary a day spent thinking. The lump sums of Japan is without a clue of what common sense is and to me, appear to be a twisted type of human cattle in their social settings.
They do what they are told, and if that something they were told was wrong, then are punished for it because it was "their fault". This again, creates a GIGANTIC rift in their personalities and only augments their immaturity, which then comes rushing out as low self-esteem and an enormous inferiority complex. I mean, even in the language they speak they are assigned "levels" of communication aimed at self-degradation and inferiority. They call it "polite".

So you combine these three elements, mix them up in a blender and you have a classic sexual deviant that has a hard time telling reality from fantasy, good from bad, and common sense from being told what to do.

OK that is my buck fiddy, probably full of racial slurs and inaccuracy. Then again I am always changing my mind on things the more I learn, I’m not afraid to admit to failure or to being wrong, and won't throw a personal and emotional temper tantrum over it.

I want to note here, that this is not only my opinion of the Japanese, but a great deal of the people in the Western world as well.

-Russ

CKohalyk
30th June 2003, 05:06
Russ,

I agree with your number one, and your number two. And I would just like to add that Japanese society and economic structure only perpetuates it, and until there is some devastating top down/external change I don't think it will change. But we can discuss that more later, on to your third point:


Originally posted by Mekugi
[C) (defined). The Japanese society does not "Accept failure". [/B]

I would tend to disagree. In my experience I would think that Japanese society almost expects failure. Their decision-making processes almost guarantee failure while removing any one person from full accountability, which in turn engenders failure again down the road (Snow Brand anyone?).

The plight of the "failed" hero is rampant in Japanese literature and artwork. It not that they have a "can't win, don't try" attitude, it's more of a "can't win, try harder coz I'll gain respect" attitude.

Although J-culture recognizes achievement (I think they do on occasion, but are more ready to recognize seniority) I think the general trend is to expect, and accept failure.

my 2y,

Chad

Mekugi
30th June 2003, 05:51
Hmm...you're right. I do think there is an inferiority thing going on in this country, perhaps it's my own prejudices at work. I feel like half the people I work with are simply "afraid" to try things because they might fail. I get that feeling outside of work as well. Maybe they are just underconfident? perhaps too shy?
Maybe I am seeing things from an ethnocentrically tainted perspective and not seeing the true meaning behind it.

-Russ


Originally posted by CKohalyk
Russ,

I agree with your number one, and your number two. And I would just like to add that Japanese society and economic structure only perpetuates it, and until there is some devastating top down/external change I don't think it will change. But we can discuss that more later, on to your third point:



I would tend to disagree. In my experience I would think that Japanese society almost expects failure. Their decision-making processes almost guarantee failure while removing any one person from full accountability, which in turn engenders failure again down the road (Snow Brand anyone?).

The plight of the "failed" hero is rampant in Japanese literature and artwork. It not that they have a "can't win, don't try" attitude, it's more of a "can't win, try harder coz I'll gain respect" attitude.

Although J-culture recognizes achievement (I think they do on occasion, but are more ready to recognize seniority) I think the general trend is to expect, and accept failure.

my 2y,

Chad

Kimpatsu
30th June 2003, 06:11
Just to add my 2-yen worth: Sexual immaturity and repression, yes, definitely, but the inferiority complex can often segue into anger and racism. Last weekend, a middle-aged Japanese man claimed to me that "true Japanese" (note the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy) were moved to tears in the presence of the emperor. He said it was the Japanese blood. So I asked him if I could become Japanese by having a blood transfusion, and he flew into a rage.
Plus ça change...

CKohalyk
30th June 2003, 06:17
Originally posted by Mekugi
Hmm...you're right. I do think there is an inferiority thing going on in this country, perhaps it's my own prejudices at work. I feel like half the people I work with are simply "afraid" to try things because they might fail. I get that feeling outside of work as well. Maybe they are just underconfident? perhaps too shy?


In this situation I think we should refer to your original point A:


Originally posted by Mekugi

A) ... In Japan they seem to raise their children to be children.

I know before anyone at MY work does ANYTHING they have to ask their superiors (read = PARENTS). It goes all the way up the line. Nobody is trusted to make any decision themselves, no matter how menial or how simple. They are treated like children not only at home but also in the work environment. (and it pi$$es me off to no end!)

Maybe Japanese DO have common sense, it's just that they are never allowed to use it?

ck

Kimpatsu
30th June 2003, 06:46
In his book, "Behind the Mask", Ian Biruma argues that the difference between Western and Japanese society is that Westerners are motivated by the carrot of success, whereas the Japanese are motivated by the stick of potential failure. This is not a mere semantic difference, according to Biruma, because the upshot of the Japanese position is that people are afraid to stick their necks out, take any risks, or shoulder any responsibility, for fear of (potential) failure coming back to haunt them. A salaryman who fails is destined to become a madogiwa; sidelined and constantly passed over for promotion. His career will stall forevermore. The difference in emphasis is best summed up as in the West, we fail, shrug it off, and have another bash; in Japan, terror at the possibility of failure is so great, the Japanese are paralysed with inaction. Hence the buck-passing and constant appeals to higher-ups. Also, authority is regarded as far more important than in the West. We foster healthy skepticism of pronouncements by those in authority; by contrast, the Japanese are not only conditioned to believe in the divinity of those above them (culminating with the emperor, who is "truly divine"), but they also naively believe that pronouncements from on high can never be wrong. This has led, inevitably, to economic and corporate stagnation. And it's only going to get worse before it gets better.
Vive la gaijin revolution!

Mekugi
30th June 2003, 06:50
WHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! Good one Tony.Furthermore, lest they forget that Japan is not a race, but a country. Their race is Mongoloid... bless their little pointy heads.

Classic man, love it.

-Russ


Originally posted by Kimpatsu
Just to add my 2-yen worth: Sexual immaturity and repression, yes, definitely, but the inferiority complex can often segue into anger and racism. Last weekend, a middle-aged Japanese man claimed to me that "true Japanese" (note the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy) were moved to tears in the presence of the emperor. He said it was the Japanese blood. So I asked him if I could become Japanese by having a blood transfusion, and he flew into a rage.
Plus ça change...

Kimpatsu
30th June 2003, 06:53
Originally posted by Mekugi
WHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! Good one Tony.Furthermore, lest they forget that Japan is not a race, but a country. Their race is Mongoloid... bless their little pointy heads.

Classic man, love it.

-Russ


We aim to please, Russ. BTW, when are you next coming to Tokyo? :toast: :beer:

CKohalyk
30th June 2003, 07:04
Nice Tony.

I guess that works with the idea of "decision by concensus." Nobody has to stick their neck out, and if anything goes wrong it never lands on anybody and nobody is considered a "failure." Thus Nippon Ham and Snowbrand (and my company) can keep trundeling along with the same blind executives.

Another thing I noticed working in a Japanese company (okay I work in branding and public relations so bear with me...), products and business/brand strategy are not targetted at the customer, but at the executives. When a new strategy is formulated it is not based on research and customer surveys, but on the recent whims of the director. I think Dentsu is about the only company that has gotten passed this (and only after they hired a guy from S.Cali to do their brand consulting).

Like Tony said, "they also naively believe that pronouncements from on high can never be wrong."

Thanks,

CK

Kimpatsu
30th June 2003, 07:11
This is why Japanese advertising is such crap. It's also a great example of how memes spread; popularity of a new product (the latest joshi kosei fad, primary school kids and Pokemon cards, etc.) spreads not because of advertising, but in spite of it, by word of mouth.
Back on the subject of blood transfusions: if I donate blood to a Japanese, do they become British?

Mekugi
30th June 2003, 08:28
Originally posted by Kimpatsu

We aim to please, Russ. BTW, when are you next coming to Tokyo? :toast: :beer:

Ohh I am not sure... I think I will squueze something in this August though!! Ohhh the memories...

-R

Kimpatsu
30th June 2003, 08:30
I have O-Bon off work all week, and I'm not going anywhere... the possibilities abound...

Mekugi
30th June 2003, 09:05
Steve DeLaney are you following this thread? We're talking pithy dark beer man....


(that should get his attention)...

-Rasu

Kimpatsu
30th June 2003, 09:09
Oh, man, I'm salivating just thinking about it...
:beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: :beer: :toast: