Aiki-Batto

[A. Bakken]

What do you think of Stenudd's "Aiki-Batto" videos?
http://www.stenudd.com/aikibatto/video.htm

[A. M. Jauregui]

What do you think of it, Aage?

I find it interesting that they made a system for their aikido even though Nisho’s Aikido Toho Iai exists. What they do as seen in the clips looks like normal Seitei Iai to me.

*Shrug* They are not going to find a convert to their system in me - I am happy were I am.

[A. Bakken]

Originally posted by A.M. Jauregui
What they do as seen in the clips looks like normal Seitei Iai to me.

It looks nothing like the ZNKR-iai *I* do. At a very superficial level, there are perhaps some loose similarities with "generic" MSR/MJER.

I find it amusing that people will jump at the first opportunity to bash Seitei, but never mind... *double shrug*

Ce n’est plus moi qui pense, c’est le langage qui pense en moi.
(Levi-Strauss)

[chrismoses]

Actually if you read the intent of the curriculum, it is simply to educate the interested Aikidoka about the more realistic movements of the sword. In general I'd agree that they seem primarily like the Seitei Iai, but are done (in what I can assume to be) in a method, more in keeping with the Aikido movements of this particular school. I would think it only fitting that they specifics would be slightly different from the basis (again assuming Seitei Iai) otherwise he would simply have his students learning Seitei. O-Sensei was known to do the same thing. He would send a promising student to study the sword (primarily) with a koryu teacher, then observe what the student learned, then re-teach the student how the techniques would be performed within the framework of Aiki. (see Pranin's "Masters of Aikido" for more specific details of this). So there certainly is a historical precedent for this kind of modification to existing techniques in the Aikido world.

Personally I think the best way to learn about the sword is through a real sword style. However as a teacher, I can certainly see the interest in a pared down version of the basics in order to up the general level of understanding among your students. A few years of really studying the sword in its proper context is enough to surpass probably 90% of the aiki-ken practitioners out there. It can be really painful to watch if you actually know what you're doing. That said, it's hard to convince everyone that they really need to study an additional martial art (and go through all the difficulties that that presents).

I don't think they're looking for converts, and I respect the fact that they're calling it what it is, not "Divine Plum Blossom Ryu" or some other nonsense.

[FastEd]

UUhhnnn??? That stuff looks nothing like ZNKR Seitei Iai. I mean...come on, have you or Ana ever SEEN ZNKR Seitei Iai?

As for my opinion of it, well it is what it is "nothing special". Just like Seitei in that regard I guess.

[DCPan]

Originally posted by A.M. Jauregui


I find it interesting that they made a system for their aikido even though Nisho’s Aikido Toho Iai exists.

It is even more interesting that Mr. Stenudd is ranked as a yudansha in Nishio's Aiki-Toho, yet choose to creat his own style anyway.

David "Why keep re-inventing the wheel when the key is in the mileage?"

[IZA]

very nice movements, although i have no knowledge of aiki batto,based on what i saw, its really nice.

[glad2bhere]

Okay, Folks. I know just enough Japanese to get myself into serious trouble. :-)

Is the term being used ("aiki-batto") an actual term or is this another one of those items manufactured to suggest something not actually in evidence (IE. "quick drawing techniques associated with an Aiki philosophy of action"). I am always amazed at the number of odd combinations of Japanese syllables which are intermixed to produce various titles. Sometimes it seems to me not unlike the way Westerners manufacture various arts and then try to apply a Korean term or vocabulary to give it a sense of authenticity. Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[gendzwil]

I think Stefan made up the name, along with the techniques. If you talk to him about it he's quite straightforward about his background, the reason for the system and all that stuff. He's got a fair amount of experience under his belt and didn't approach this lightly. This has been discussed on iaido-l, if you search the archives you can probably find it.

[Brently Keen]

"Personally I think the best way to learn about the sword is through a real sword style. However as a teacher, I can certainly see the interest in a pared down version of the basics in order to up the general level of understanding among your students. A few years of really studying the sword in its proper context is enough to surpass probably 90% of the aiki-ken practitioners out there. It can be really painful to watch if you actually know what you're doing."

Well put, Christian. I agree completely. Far be it from me to claim that I actually know what I'm doing with a sword though.

Whether they be from Yoshinkan, Ki Society, Iwama, Nishio, Saotome, Homma, Stenudd, or whoever, I'm all for calling these aikido derived sword styles "aikido-ken" instead of "aiki-ken". In Daito-ryu there's something called "aiki-ken", and it's nothing like what any of these folks are doing. But I know that'll never happen.

-- sigh --

With respect,

Brently Keen

[Walker]

Originally posted by Brently Keen
[I]I'm all for calling these aikido derived sword styles "aikido-ken" instead of "aiki-ken". In Daito-ryu there's something called "aiki-ken", and it's nothing like what any of these folks are doing. But I know that'll never happen.
-- sigh --
With respect,
Brently Keen Brentley, just drop the “A” off the front. :p

[glad2bhere]

Dear Brently:

"......Whether they be from Yoshinkan, Ki Society, Iwama, Nishio, Saotome, Homma, Stenudd, or whoever, I'm all for calling these aikido derived sword styles "aikido-ken" instead of "aiki-ken". In Daito-ryu there's something called "aiki-ken", and it's nothing like what any of these folks are doing. But I know that'll never happen....."

OK, so maybe this is a particularly naive' question, but "why"?

If all of the arts that you mention derive in some small part from DRAJJ, and if Takeda taught OHIR sword along with his MThand techniques it would seem to follow that there would be SOME measure of similarity among ALL of the sword material (give or take the odd techniques that would filter in from other places). Now I know the we KMA practitioners have our problems and as a result there is a lot of variance in the curriculums. But in the case of the Japanese traditions, especially when they are are progressing from a particular source, I would have thought there would be more consistency in subject matter. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce