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Chrono
7th July 2003, 04:17
I was wondering how the samurai honored their wives. Were they allowed to have wives, and if so, how did they treat them?


Jon

hyaku
7th July 2003, 05:13
I have a few translations that I should put online sometime relative to this subject.

Visualize a Victorian like severeness then add to it.

The articles mention things like not being allowed to appear it public. Not being allowed to meet another person in private without some one else being present.

One aphorism from the Hagakure: A retainer returning to his home in Yae entered his home to find a mans hakama. On questioning his wife she said that a passer by had asked to and was using the toilet.

The retainer reported the matter to the Lord Naoshige. Both the wife and the man were put to death.

© Hyakutake-Watkin 1990

Contrary to this there are many conversations between the lord and his wife with her giving him worth while advice.

Isnt there a well known book written by a lady telling of the life a of a young woman in old Japan?

Hyakutake Colin

Michael Wert
8th July 2003, 00:11
Lower ranking samurai women had more freedom than those of higher ranking samurai, especially during the latter half of the 18th and definately 19th century. For a good book on samurai women one should check out Women of the Mito Domain: Recollections of Samurai Family Life by Yamakawa Kikue and translated by Kate Nakai published by Stanford U. Press. This book talks about everyday household life in the Mito domain during the final years of the Tokugawa period.

Michael Wert
History Ph.D student
UC Irvine

Soulend
8th July 2003, 00:41
Ellis Amdur has written an excellent article about women of the samurai class:
The Role of the Arms-Bearing Women in Japanese History (http://www.koryu.com/library/wwj1.html)

Jock Armstrong
9th July 2003, 02:37
Naoshige was an ass at the best of times. The story in "Hagakure" was probably apochryphal but not outside the realms of possibility considering the totalitarian, selfish,fascist and downright repressive nature of the author. He wrote this load of control freak drivel because he wanted his warriors to be mindless automatons obeying his will and they weren't playing.

hyaku
9th July 2003, 06:02
Originally posted by Jock Armstrong
He wrote this load of control freak drivel because he wanted his warriors to be mindless automatons obeying his will and they weren't playing.

Admitedly severe. But other cultures at that time acted rather strongly towards the possibilty of adultery and still do today.

The other translations I have that are not from the Hagakure point towards a Victorian severity. Of young women always being chaperoned. Of sitting to study and being disciplined if they so much as moved.

Even nowadays a lot a Japanese relationship leave a lot to be desired. I was invited to one home where the wife sat behind a screen and waited on her husband on command!

If you went home and found another man in the house with his pants off would you pat him on the back? I dont even think I would get as far as asking the local Lords advice.

Hyakutake Colin

Chrono
10th July 2003, 03:30
Does the "Hagakure" accurately describe Japanese life of a samurai? Do y'all recommend it?

Jon

Jock Armstrong
10th July 2003, 03:42
You are right Colin. One thing though- most accounts are Edo period [am I right?]. Society changed a great deal from medieval times then. You are absolutely right about their severity. Earlier, it was more relaxed. Edo severity has its roots in insecurity of a warrior class with no wars and the deliberate policy of the shogunate who felt compelled to "control" everything. japan was and still is a land of extremes. People can't leave things be^ if a govt is nervous, expect repression. If a husband is insecure, expect domination.:beer:

hyaku
10th July 2003, 05:01
Originally posted by Chrono
Does the "Hagakure" accurately describe Japanese life of a samurai? Do y'all recommend it?

Jon

Views range from "One of Japans most important literary works" to "The ravings of a homosexual priest who was p?ssd off because was not afforded he right to do Junshi (self immolation on the death of ones lord).

For me it's a local thing, so I put it online.

http://www.bunbun.ne.jp/~sword/Hagakure1.html

Yamamoto was born about 3 minutes walk from where I sit typing now. Some of places he mentioned in Hagakure I can see from the window. Needless to say his aphorisms are of great pride to this area. Thanks to Nabeshima's great interest in literary works they have the original designs of the Castle. Rebuilding is near completion and it will house artifacts pertaining to this local history.

If you have not, I would read it anyway.

Hyakutake Colin