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lyam
19th September 2000, 14:36
Just out of curiousity, how many of you feel that by practicing any of the Gendai arts (or indeed any and all martial arts) you have improved your character in some way, whether you have become more patient, clear of thought, or just less ornery? It seems to me (from my admittedly small experience in these arts) that if one is practicing correctly there would be some improvement of one's character; ethical, moral or otherwise.

However, upon visiting various message boards, dojos and numerous websites I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth. There is so much in-fighting, political posturing and just plain name calling, that I can't help but wonder what some of these same people were like before practicing the arts :rolleyes: !?

I know why I practice these arts and others' attitudes do not bother me too much, but it is disheartening to witness so much pettiness in so many otherwise beautiful traditions.

Before this becomes yet another 'Bad Budo' thread, I reiterate my question: So, how have the arts changed you? :look:

________________
Respectfully yours,
Sean Farrell :smilejapa

Bob Steinkraus
19th September 2000, 17:50
- Increased my self confidence
- Markedly improved my physical condition
- Taught me goal setting and concentration
- Improved my social skills
- Made it less likely that I would engage in unnecessary fights
- By de-emphasizing the ego involvement, made fighting less necessary - i.e. "Why should I bother pounding on him? I know what I am capable of, and who cares what he thinks?"

I have not reached Buddhist enlightenment, but that was never one of my goals.

Jack B
20th September 2000, 00:43
This phenomenon (people being rude/petty/careless) does not seem to be limited to gendai, or koryu, or Japanese or non-Japanese for that matter. It's all over the place. :rolleyes:

One thing Aikido has taught me is honesty and following through with what you are doing. I am married today because I had to look at what I was doing, where it was going, and make a commitment.

There is a joke: A boy tells his father that in school they studied the custom of arranged marriages. "They don't know their wives until they get married!" he says. "That's true in every country," the father replies. :D

Point is, the commitment is the important part. In every martial art you must give yourself fully to instantaneous decisions. You must trust your subconscious, which means you must be without mendacity. These qualities are of value.

You can't know the result of any action until it is done. True martial Art includes the ability to transcend chaos, living with it and keeping your own order within it, like a surfer on the ocean, without trying to force the universe into your conception of order. By owning your limitations, you can live in reality.

MarkF
20th September 2000, 08:26
Originally posted by Jack B:


This phenomenon (people being rude/petty/careless) does not seem to be limited to gendai, or koryu, or Japanese or non-Japanese for that matter. It's all over the place.



A quick bit of business. Jack B, please remember to sign your posts with your full name. You probably just forgot, but if you configure your signature box with it, and make the sig. a default setting, you won't have to worry about it.:)

You're right, Jack it is all over and one must deal with it. This can be very personal, and I doubt many have mastered a way of staying out of it, thus the question in the first place.

Budo is not self-limiting. Training is not a magic potion which eliminates one from it. You must deal with it the best way you can, and have it be as least intrusive as possible. Again, this is a personal thing, but some do learn some way of dealing with the posturing, the politics, the "my art is better"... and so on.

A good way to breathe, is to visit a site such as this and letting it out. In this, E-budo can be a positive. You may not agree with some or even the majority, but it can be useful.

As to what it has done for me, well, I suppose the same thing music has done, given me direction, but with no self-limiting goals. I do it, I suppose because, at the end of the day, I feel I've put in a good day of training/teaching, and it feels good. This is probably not what you all want to hear, but anything else would be my ego speaking, and that is, after all, budo-determined self-interest. And, to be honest, I really have never thought about what it has done for me, at least, not lately, but I am human, I will make mistakes and cast aspersions, condemn those with whom I see as harmful to MA, and hope never to fall into it. So far, things are looking OK.:)

Mark

George Ledyard
20th September 2000, 09:15
Originally posted by lyam
Just out of curiousity, how many of you feel that by practicing any of the Gendai arts (or indeed any and all martial arts) you have improved your character in some way, whether you have become more patient, clear of thought, or just less ornery? It seems to me (from my admittedly small experience in these arts) that if one is practicing correctly there would be some improvement of one's character; ethical, moral or otherwise.

However, upon visiting various message boards, dojos and numerous websites I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth. There is so much in-fighting, political posturing and just plain name calling, that I can't help but wonder what some of these same people were like before practicing the arts :rolleyes: !?

I know why I practice these arts and others' attitudes do not bother me too much, but it is disheartening to witness so much pettiness in so many otherwise beautiful traditions.

Before this becomes yet another 'Bad Budo' thread, I reiterate my question: So, how have the arts changed you? :look:

________________
Respectfully yours,
Sean Farrell :smilejapa


I once asked Chiba Sensei why there was so much political animosity in Aikido. He replied that it was because we are all human beings. Some of the greatest people I know are martial artists. They don't happen to be posting on forums on the web. I wouldn't judge budo by what you see on this forum. There is the same range of folks here that you would find anywhere. I agree that the behavior of a number of people has been embarrassing and I have said so several times on the forum. I got a number of supportive e-mails, all from people who weren't acting badly in the first place. The folks whom I most intended to reach had no response and didn't miss a beat in pursuing their personal vendettas. So its the same mix in martial arts you get in any walk of life. Take what you want and leave the rest I guess.

Yamantaka
20th September 2000, 14:55
[QUOTE]Originally posted by George Ledyard
I once asked Chiba Sensei why there was so much political animosity in Aikido. He replied that it was because we are all human beings.

YAMANTAKA : Exactly!

"Some of the greatest people I know are martial artists. They don't happen to be posting on forums on the web. I wouldn't judge budo by what you see on this forum. "

YAMANTAKA : And quite a few others DO post in this Forum. And the problem isn't with Budo, it's with people and the present state of society. Education, habits, insecure people, people with big egos(martial artists or not)...The list is frighteningly big.
We demand of Aikido the impossible : to make better men of everyone. It can't and it won't. We have the christians : nice people but Christianity's adherent spawned the Crusades, the Inquisition and they were in favor of slavery. Music is a beautiful art but Wagner was a very bad character. Cortez was sent to America by the Christian Majesties and he colonized and explored the New World, in that process destroying the Aztec Civilization.
I believe Aikido and other martial arts show us a WAY. If we follow it or not, it's up to us. Some do, some don't. I guess that's all. IMHO.

"Take what you want and leave the rest I guess."

YAMANTAKA : Exactly! At least, that's what we should try ...

Gil Gillespie
20th September 2000, 15:53
George's post, as is his nature, succinctly and eloquently cuts to the heart of the discussion. It would be pointless to add to his message. We all strive to have our MA and our life walking in the same footprints like that.

As to Lyam's original question how has MA changed you? That is worthy of introspection all along The Way. I have heard it said that MA does not so much build character as reveal character. How do you see that? Lyam's question addresses a thread I posted BC, have your goals for training changed over the years?

When I started MA I knew nothing of the spiritual growth inherent in serious training. The biggest way MA has changed me is the acceptance that whatever practical self-defense I have internalized is secondary to the ongoing personal refinement. By eliminating ineffective or negative habits and tendencies in our training we seek to have that transfer to our lives. I still block with my chin sometimes just as I drop the ball in the real world. It's all ok. That's the common teaching of all the great sensei's I've met along The Path: Just keep training.

Goon Jhuen Weng
22nd September 2000, 07:41
Kendo and Iaido have made a great impact on my character and my lifestyle and I strongly believe in the positive aspects of the Gendai arts which can help improve a man or a woman who has comitted his or herself to the art. But, as many of you may have read and recalled, I posted a message about a particular Kendo training session gone wrong about a couple of months ago. To recap, the senior student, a Shodan, gets mad that a junior student appeared to be portraying ill manners towards him so, he blows up, nearly assaults the guy and has the audacity to challenge him to a fight after the class, all while the Sensei is around and not doing a single thing about it!:mad: (This was in Singapore BTW and not in Australia) I had to admit that the incindent disturbed me badly and challenged many of my notions that all Budoka were sincere, humble, kind etc, etc....people who had highly evolved characters which were developed through their training. Seems I am wrong.:cry: But, I have not been discouraged from continuing my training. In fact, I'm resolved to continue my training in order to overcome such egos and vile pettiness. (All right, I admit, a part of me wants to continue my training so I can beat the hell out of that punk in a shiai match but only a very, very small part I assure all of you.) So, all of you might ask: what am I trying to get at? Well, by seeing the ugly side of Budo, I actually see the whole thing and it has honestly, made me a wiser and more resolved person. (uhhh...I Hope:o)

MarkF
23rd September 2000, 11:03
Hi, Weng!
For a guy your age, you seem to handle life beautifully. You admit your limits, failures, that you are human, and make the best out of what, potentially, could have been much worse. For that, you are to be commended. And there isn't much else to say.

I remember that post. I couldn't believe it was at a kendo event. I have been to kendo shiai in Los Angeles and here in New Mexico, and the general wa of the events was outstanding, especially when compared to karatedo, judo, or aikido, as Stan Pranin commented on recently. The point is that people are human, even budoka:)

Those who do this take a lot, but few put it right back in, and that is something we all can work on.

Mark

efb8th
23rd September 2000, 21:43
Hi, Everybody.

Judo has made me old, mean, sore, grumpy and ugly. I have found the greatest friendships in my life mat-side; who else could stand me? (Excuse me.... OK, thanks Honey!) Sorry, that was my wife reminding me that was God, not Judo, so I guess the only effects of Judo have been good.

Regards,

rossl42
26th September 2000, 09:46
Martial artists are not perfect and we sometimes let our imperfections show. I might suggest that rather than being disappointed in the way some of those who post on this forum express themselves, re-read some of the older threads and be pleased when you notice how the posts of some individuals have improved over time.

I understand that budo is often presented to the public as a method for self-improvement. However, it is unrealistic to expect that everyone involved will be aiming at high personal goals and even more unrealistic to expect that more than a few would come close to having attained those goals. We are just people with a particular set of interests. We train for our own reasons and have our own goals.

To answer your question: I am still a difficult, grumpy old sod but, hopefully, less difficult than I used to be. I am still sometimes foul tempered, but show that side of my character less often nowadays (my kids may disagree:(). I am still competitive when playing team sport, but am less susceptible to niggling by my opponents. I am still, at times unjustly opinionated, but have learned to accept others opinions and to learn from them. So, people who have seen me on a bad day may be justified in questioning the value of budo for self-improvement. Meanwhile, those who have been closest to me for the longest periods have seen gains made over time.

Any improvements I claim for myself might be due to growing up, growing older or to my life experiences. However, my involvement in budo has been one of my most significant life experiences. I have met some great people from around the world and made some wonderful friends. Sometimes, I have even been able to help others.

Oh, and I have also developed some effective self-defence skills and stayed more fit than I would otherwise have been.

lyam
26th September 2000, 15:23
Thanks for the great responses everybody. I've found that practicing martial arts has helped me <i>see</i> many things about myself that I was not previously aware of which, once seen, could then be worked upon.

Physically, Aikido has helped me notice my almost complete lack of coordination, particularly balance and centeredness. It has also helped me to begin developing those qualities.

Mentally, It has shown to me that I'm much more impatient and self centered than I ever allowed myself to believe!

Spiritually, ummm, I'm not touching that one with a ten foot pole :rolleyes: ! Let's just say my awareness of myself and those around me is expanding!

Arigato Gozimashita!