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View Full Version : Fury at Nanking 'lie' claim



Jody Holeton
14th July 2003, 04:59
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3062141.stm

I thought history was written by the winners?

Cody
14th July 2003, 06:27
Hope he didn't get locked out again! But to continue his tradition...

Once there was a puny nation,
Where people think they are stars of Asian.
Invasion is fine,
But bombing is crime!
Loudly, to Bush, they yell their indiction.

Once there was a nation so puny,
In it dwelled warriors very feisty.
In china they raped;
In Nanking they raided
Around they turn, and proclaim "it's phoney!"

Once there was a nation so feeble,
To cope, they treat war-criminals like heros.
atom-bomb is crime,
but raping is fine!
Later, they even say Nanking was fable.


(I know, it's not as good as his, but I am ESL!)

-Cody

MarkF
15th July 2003, 23:52
I thought history was written by the winners?


You're correct, but a few generations later, the winner's historians rewrite the history, too.

It reads just like the yahoos in the US and other nations who claim, in books written by self-styled historians and "researchers," that the holocaust in Europe didn't happen, that it did, but it wasn't anything as being claimed today, or the numbers are inflated.

The Japanese should quit whining and accept one, simple fact. "You lost, get over it." After all, they occupied Korea for many years, and took everything it had to offer the Japanese thought they needed. They slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Chinese in Nanjing, whether it was 150,000 or 300,000 is irrelevent. How does lowering the number make it more justifiable? It doesn't.

Those who praise the government of Japan from those times, are neo-fascists commenting on the original fascists. At the very least, they could commend those Japanese on trial in the war crimes tribunal for pleading guilty. They, at least, admitted their roles in it. That's more than can be said about most nazis. Ultimately, even that is meaningless, but it is far less meaningless than denial. Could they all be suffering from bi-polar disorder? Yes, that's the ticket. They shouldn't be blamed because they all had the same mood disorder. Practicing their sword work on live "corpses" is a noble act, too, as it certainly advanced the knowledge of those bu-jutsu. That is the important thing, right?:rolleyes:


Mark

Joseph Svinth
16th July 2003, 02:41
Losers regularly write history. In English, look at the vast literature on the American Civil War and the Vietnam War, and in German, try the literature on the world wars.

Vapour
16th July 2003, 09:44
Well, no. But to state the obvious, in Japan, Japanese are majority (winner?) so they pretty much can say whatever they want. As of LDP politicians (another winners), Japanese money polics ensure that they could pretty much say something outrageous and still can get away with it.

MarkF
16th July 2003, 10:58
New histories are written all the time and losers do write it as Joe said, but in general, this is reinventing something generations apart, and any historian can back up his claims to his/her opinion-laden "research." Everyone takes things out of context, but some things have nothing to do with history, but a rewriting of it. Sometims they are right (very few) and mostly they are wrong, but you have to be close to it to know how to take it.

According to some in the US, as many as one-third believe the European holocaust either didn't happen or is overblown, and they call themseles historians, too. A recent law suit brought in the UK concerned an author who had written such a book. "It just didn't happen and I can prove it, thus the lawsuit was filed in England.

I remember having to get one of my parents to givep ermission for me to check out a book available in the JR. High school library; The Third Reich. I'm betting it is something like that in Japan, as well.


Mark

I also needed parental consent to read Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath" also available in the school library.

KhawMengLee
17th July 2003, 12:05
Its done all the time. That's why Archaeology is the search for truth.

Take Custer's last stand...glorified over history. A valiant final battle for brave men on the frontier in a tight defensive ring on top of little big horn. In truth it was an absolute rout and slaughter. They were in disarray, panic, and were massacered.

Archaeologists on the site have shown that Custer's men were so panic stricken that they were loading bullets of the wrong calibre and some of them literally had their rifles blowing up in their faces.

MarkF
18th July 2003, 01:17
We are witnessing one right now, a rewrite while the battle still rages and kills for the empty 'facts' promised and I'm still waiting, but hardly with abated breath.

Seeems we did this about thirty years ago, doesn't it? Deja vu? guerilla warfare?


Mark

boku_wa
8th August 2003, 21:53
i also came across a startling discovery myself a while back when conversing with a colleague from hong kong. we were discussing the use of the atomic bomb in japan during ww2. i mentioned that in view of the situation then if i were in a position of power, i would have authorized the use of the bomb as well.

the island hopping campaign was taking its toll on us forces. the bomb was a way of centralizing the war, sad as it were.

ultimately, the aim of any war is to kill more of "them" than "us".

i believe there is some speculation that the war would have ended eventually without the use of the bombs, but one day more of another life lost from "our side" would have been too much.

at any rate, he indicated that the whole ending of the war with the bombs was taught differently in that part of the world. of course, being in america, his view has broadened a bit, but i was nevertheless surprised to see that even from hong kong, the use of the bombs to end ww2 with japan was not seen for what it really was.