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John Lindsey
15th July 2003, 03:21
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6729751%255E13762,00.html
From a correspondent in Paris
July 10, 2003

THE French government, in a bid to turn back the tide of English words in the field of technology, has banned its civil service from using the term "email" instead of its approved French equivalent, the culture minister announced.

All government ministries, websites, publications and documents must now use "courriel" - a shortening of "courrier electronique" (literally: electronic mail) - when they are referring to the messages sent via the internet, the ministry said in a statement.

The move, made law by its publication in the official government gazette on June 20, will put the French administration out of step with the majority of the French public, who still prefer to use "email" to communicate between computer accounts.

Jock Armstrong
15th July 2003, 08:10
Aaaahhhhh.....the French.....they have a silly language anyway.

I mean, where else can "ois" be "wa"..............

I rest my case M'lud....

Vapour
15th July 2003, 08:20
Go to google. Type "French military victories" and hit I-feel-lucky. :)

ScottUK
15th July 2003, 16:17
For all of you who didn't have a go, google turned up this:

Did you mean: french military defeats?

No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.

Your search - french military victories - did not match any documents.


Stunning... :D

They don't like the English word email but I guess the English word Surrender was acceptable...

Shitoryu Dude
15th July 2003, 16:25
I thought surrender was a French word..... :confused:

:beer:

ScottUK
15th July 2003, 16:30
Hehe - are you kidding me, Harvey?

Naah, that would be just too funny.... :D

seskoad
15th July 2003, 16:36
I have indonesian friend who adores napoleon. If you ask A to Z about napoleon, he will explain it to you as if he's historian. I didn't object anything about napoleon before, but since I met him, well I kinda hate napoleon thing. More I learnt about napoleon, more I said he's stupid and smart sometime. I don't know maybe I just hate people too ambitious. :eek:

ScottUK
15th July 2003, 16:43
Napoleon was one of the great military commanders of all time, but the more his health failed, the more he dropped a bollock or two in every battle.

Go buy this if you want to know more :D

Book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0851129617/qid=1058283778/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0160353-1207117?v=glance&s=books)

Scott

gendzwil
15th July 2003, 16:59
You have to click on "French military defeats" to get the full impact of this.

Shitoryu Dude
15th July 2003, 17:18
I'll ask my wife, but I'm pretty sure surrender is a French word. Too funny.

:beer:

william northcote
15th July 2003, 17:38
The French does have a word for surrender, it is called Defeat or "Welcome our country is yours, while we use the channel tunnel to hide in" (as is the original intention).

Soulend
15th July 2003, 17:40
.

Soulend
15th July 2003, 17:51
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English surrenderen, from Old French surrendre : sur-, sur- + rendre, to deliver; see render.

Shitoryu Dude
15th July 2003, 17:58
- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War
- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."

william northcote
15th July 2003, 18:06
What about the 9 day war?

Did they not help out in that?

Cady Goldfield
15th July 2003, 18:13
Originally posted by Jock Armstrong
Aaaahhhhh.....the French.....they have a silly language anyway.

I mean, where else can "ois" be "wa"..............



Not only that, but it can mean both "law" and "geese." :p

Kingu
15th July 2003, 18:20
http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17340

It's going to spare you some time.



Cady, the name, for law is in fact "loi".
But they can be pronounced the same if you put an article:
loi= l'oie (law= the goose)

Soulend
15th July 2003, 18:46
"It's like wiping your ass with silk."
- Merovingian, Matrix Reloaded

ScottUK
15th July 2003, 20:07
Originally posted by Mental Harvey
- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.Nice :D

I did a bit o' reading on Wellington - possibly the funniest/sharpest leader we've had. Search for "Wellington AND quotes" and see what comes up. If I get a chance later, I'll try and find a few.

Scott

Jock Armstrong
16th July 2003, 01:11
LOL- I have to remind our US friends that it was actually the british who saved the French at Mons in 1914. They stopped the German advance cold then static trench warfare ensued with commonwealth troops from all over the world engaged, especially Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders. The US tipped the balance in late 1917.

hence the British soldiers comment to an American in WWII

"Don't worry buddy, we're here now"

"And you are late again...."


guaranteed to start fistfights in bars..........

ScottUK
16th July 2003, 08:45
Field Marshall the Duke of Wellington:


Yes, and they went down very well too.
- A retort to a comment on how very well French cavalry had come up at Waterloo.


We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.


Being born in a stable does not make one a horse.
- A retort to being called Irish.


Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must.


I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy,
but, by God, they terrify me!
- talking about his own troops.


I am convinced that there would be nothing so intelligent, so valuable, as English soldiers of that rank, if you could get them sober, which is impossible.
- on his own Brigade of Guards.


An extraordinary affair. I gave them their orders and they wanted to stay and discuss them.
- after his first Cabinet meeting as Prime Minister.


MESSAGE FROM THE DUKE OF WELLINGTON TO THE BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICE IN LONDON--written from Central Spain, August 1812

Gentlemen,

Whilst marching from Portugal to a position which commands the approach to Madrid and the French forces, my officers have been diligently complying with your requests which have been sent by H.M. ship from London to Lisbon and thence by dispatch to our headquarters.

We have enumerated our saddles, bridles, tents and tent poles, and all manner of sundry items for which His Majesty's Government holds me accountable. I have dispatched reports on the character, wit, and spleen of every officer. Each item and every farthing has been accounted for, with two regrettable exceptions for which I beg your indulgence.

Unfortunately the sum of one shilling and ninepence remains unaccounted for in one infantry battalion's petty cash and there has been a hideous confusion as the the number of jars of raspberry jam issued to one cavalry regiment during a sandstorm in western Spain. This reprehensible carelessness may be related to the pressure of circumstance, since we are war with France, a fact which may come as a bit of a surprise to you gentlemen in Whitehall.

This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation of my instructions from His Majesty's Government so that I may better understand why I am dragging an army over these barren plains. I construe that perforce it must be one of two alternative duties, as given below. I shall pursue either one with the best of my ability, but I cannot do both:

1. To train an army of uniformed British clerks in Spain for the benefit of the accountants and copy-boys in London or perchance.

2. To see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain.

Your most obedient servant,

Wellington


Finally, one from Napoleon:

I tell you Wellington is a bad general, the English are bad soldiers; we will settle the matter by lunchtime.
- Napoleon, before the Battle of Waterloo. :D

Iain
16th July 2003, 08:58
I'm no fan of the French, but I'll say one thing in their favour; they're still here, so they must be doing something right. As to the particulars of that something, I have yet to find much evidence pointing to anything specific.

Vapour
16th July 2003, 09:29
Hmmm, as of rather more serious note,

I don't particularly like France's stance on international politics. They scream of American Imperialism but they do exactly that when they conduct their own foreign policy.

As of French laguange loosing ground, Their effort to preserve French language or any other aspect of their culture *pure* is the exact reason they are loosing ground in cultural influence. This e-mail episode is classic example. I don't find English particularly beautiful or consistent but it is certainly very colourful and interesting one.

Iain
16th July 2003, 10:40
just because I'm a contrary bastard...


maybe the French aren't so sissy? (http://http://www.spacecityrock.com/2003_02_16_break-archive.html)

Kingu
16th July 2003, 10:51
In fact, some years ago (beginning of the 90's?) the culture minister yet published a list of new words to replace english words commonly used. This led to some aberrations as "coup de pied de coin" instead of "corner" in football vocabulary. Of course, none of us ever adopted one of these words. I guess that e-mail was already part of the list.

What is worrying me about French people using english words, is that those who use them a lot (ie a great part of youth) are unable to understand a single sentence in english...

Kingu
16th July 2003, 10:53
Originally posted by Iain
just because I'm a contrary bastard...


maybe the French aren't so sissy? (http://http://www.spacecityrock.com/2003_02_16_break-archive.html)

This link leads to nowhere :(

ScottUK
16th July 2003, 10:59
Ah, you Europeans and your html...

http://www.spacecityrock.com/2003_02_16_break-archive.html

Scott

Vapour
16th July 2003, 14:09
Originally posted by Kingu
In fact, some years ago (beginning of the 90's?) the culture minister yet published a list of new words to replace english words commonly used. This led to some aberrations as "coup de pied de coin" instead of "corner" in football vocabulary. Of course, none of us ever adopted one of these words. I guess that e-mail was already part of the list.

What is worrying me about French people using english words, is that those who use them a lot (ie a great part of youth) are unable to understand a single sentence in english...

Hmmm, I actually fail to see a connection here. What youth using English words got to do with their poor level of English. Obvious solution is to raise the quality of English education. Being language nazi, in my view, hardly contribute to raising quality of English not to mention my viet that it probably cause language to stagnate.

Kingu
16th July 2003, 15:01
I didn't meant there was a connection but just found it ironical. I, myself, since I'm able to understand English more than the average Frenchman have stopped to use those english words that are so trendy. Probably because they don't sound exotic at all to me.

And yes, being "language nazi" is no solution at all, the mix with foreign languages has always make your own evolve; like it or not.
What is sure is that governmental decisions won't make it change. And if politics really want to interact, they should act earlier, let's say not 10 years after the word e-mail is adopted by the population. :p

BTW, the word "courriel" has been created long ago and is used by a minority of internet users.

Kobe
17th July 2003, 04:50
Its very nice to see the masterclass of French history at wars. But you do not need to go that far, not in years nor in countries far away of yours.
Vietnam, sorry for me its not yet clear, how won the war?
Grenada(more than war, to invade)(yes, that small island in the Caribbean)
Panama(again, more that war, to invade), difficult.... it was not? Such a super power country with millions of soldiers.
Gulf war, I think still going on......and again, such a super power country.
And please, do not understand me wrong, I´m not agaisnt many things of the US, just the opposite, but it makes me ill the ignorance and sense of superiority that some, only some, americans have.
Last, how many of you(the ironic ones about the french wars) can actually point out in a world map where France is? Not so many.
Best regards.

Shitoryu Dude
17th July 2003, 05:16
Vietnam - a war that was never fought with the intention to win. A political nightmare than we can only truly blame Kennedy and Johnson for.

Grenada - you call that a war? more like a mild exercise in ass-kicking.

Panama - ditto

Gulf War I - Political necessities required restraint that came back to haunt us

Afghanistan - see Grenada and Panama, and these pieces of dog turd really, really had it coming to them. Object lesson for everyone else.

Gulf War II - Major battles over with within weeks. Guerilla tactics are something that history teaches us to expect in such a situation. Eventually things will finish getting sorted out and we will most likely use Iraq as a semi-permanent base, just to keep an eye on things. In the long run will most likely keep Gulf War III (Syria) and Gulf War IV (Iran) and Gulf War V (Saudia Arabia) from happening.

I'd be more concerned about North Korea. I sincerely believe that we are going to be forced to blow the crap out of parts of that little hell hole. Most likely will mark some real US/China cooperation as they don't want that insane little toy poodle having nukes any more than we do.

:beer:

Moko
17th July 2003, 05:39
Why are there trees on the Champs d'Ellysse? (sp)

Cause the German army likes to march in the shade.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Kobe
17th July 2003, 06:18
Dude, dude, I though people like you only exist in movies and comics. How any person can have that attitude of misrespect and superiority?. It does matter if we are talking about guns, France or homeless, Dude always come with his far-west hat, chewing gum, nasal accent, two pistol and start shooting, "we rule the world".
Its a pity that after such a demostration of "war superiority" he forgot to mention the real situation of Afghanistan and the current one in Irak.
Its more pity that he and some other ones do not know yet that if they can talk today is thanks to people that spoke french(liberté, egalité, fraternité).
But please Dude, keep on posting, I really enjoy making sure that dinosaurs still on earth.

william northcote
17th July 2003, 08:37
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Vietnam - a war that was never fought with the intention to win. A political nightmare than we can only truly blame Kennedy and Johnson for. Was it political? Hmmm tell that to the vetrans in their wheelchairs.


Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude Grenada - you call that a war? more like a mild exercise in ass-kicking.

Panama - ditto And where is the mention of the country that gave rise to the film "Black hawk down?"


Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude Gulf War I - Political necessities required restraint that came back to haunt us No it did not. International pressure stopped the coalition from advancing after Kuwait was free. That was the main and primary objective, not Baghdad.


Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude Afghanistan - see Grenada and Panama, and these pieces of dog turd really, really had it coming to them. Object lesson for everyone else. You went to a country to find 1 man, wreck a fragile economy, displace thousands, tear up a country that has no military or political agenda on the world stage, and you laugh?


Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude Gulf War II - Major battles over with within weeks. Guerilla tactics are something that history teaches us to expect in such a situation. Eventually things will finish getting sorted out and we will most likely use Iraq as a semi-permanent base, just to keep an eye on things. In the long run will most likely keep Gulf War III (Syria) and Gulf War IV (Iran) and Gulf War V (Saudia Arabia) from happening. What makes you think it will not happen? ITN News said in a news flash last month "4 US soldiers killed in Iraq, more to follow", somehow Iraq is not the holiday vacation Bush is wanting at the moment.


Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude I'd be more concerned about North Korea. I sincerely believe that we are going to be forced to blow the crap out of parts of that little hell hole. Most likely will mark some real US/China cooperation as they don't want that insane little toy poodle having nukes any more than we do. Korea, where a ceasefire is in place. Yes we are still at war with Korea. There was no surrender. So what if N. Korea has nukes? They can not destroy the UK :D or the USA. Maybe Japan, so as long as we do not have the false spy information that led to Iraq II: oeration destroy a worthless country by teatime, then Kobe will not turn an aweful shade of green.

Kingu
17th July 2003, 08:57
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Vietnam - a war that was never fought with the intention to win. A political nightmare than we can only truly blame Kennedy and Johnson for.

Grenada - you call that a war? more like a mild exercise in ass-kicking.

Panama - ditto

Gulf War I - Political necessities required restraint that came back to haunt us

Afghanistan - see Grenada and Panama, and these pieces of dog turd really, really had it coming to them. Object lesson for everyone else.

Gulf War II - Major battles over with within weeks. Guerilla tactics are something that history teaches us to expect in such a situation. Eventually things will finish getting sorted out and we will most likely use Iraq as a semi-permanent base, just to keep an eye on things. In the long run will most likely keep Gulf War III (Syria) and Gulf War IV (Iran) and Gulf War V (Saudia Arabia) from happening.

I'd be more concerned about North Korea. I sincerely believe that we are going to be forced to blow the crap out of parts of that little hell hole. Most likely will mark some real US/China cooperation as they don't want that insane little toy poodle having nukes any more than we do.

:beer:


Blindness is bliss.

william northcote
17th July 2003, 10:01
What gets me about the statement is that he is calling the gulf war like films. Gulf war II: How to destroy a fragile economy based on hear say.

Jock Armstrong
18th July 2003, 01:09
God bless old Welly. He was a real character. He was the strangest combination of disciplinarian and humanitarian.

I love the song the troops sang before Waterloo.

Who's the boy with the hooky nose?

Welly!!

Who's gonna kick old Boney's arse?

Welly!!:beer:

adroitjimon
18th July 2003, 01:42
Annapolis Maryland,United States Naval Academy.
Final resting place of Napolean .

I never fully understood how we Got that one,(the US).

elder999
18th July 2003, 01:49
Originally posted by adroitjimon
Annapolis Maryland,United States Naval Academy.
Final resting place of Napolean .

I never fully understood how we Got that one,(the US).

There's a bust of Napoleon at Annapolis, but his remains were interred at the Armory Les Invalides in Paris, France, 19 years after their initial burial in exile, on the island of St. Helena.


There's an excellent museum there (Paris) covering all aspects of his life....
...also, he wasn't French, but Corsican...and a brilliant man whose arrogance defeated him, IMHO.

Kobe
18th July 2003, 03:23
With all the due respect, do you know to which country Corsica belongs to..? Yes, France.

ScottUK
18th July 2003, 08:22
Hehe, I agree but is Corsica a country or a province?

I'm English before I'm British, and I'm British before I'm European! :D

Kingu
18th July 2003, 08:51
Corsica is French since 1768. Napoleon was born in 1769. I don't know all the details but I think Corsica joined France by herself to escape the influence of Genoa.

Even nowadays, some corsicans (a minority) ask for independance, using reprehensible means: bombs, assassinations. You know: terrorism.

ScottUK
18th July 2003, 08:55
They're doing it the conventional way then?

Chiburi
19th July 2003, 19:16
Originally posted by elder999
...also, he wasn't French, but Corsican...and a brilliant man whose arrogance defeated him, IMHO.
---

Originally posted by Kobe
With all the due respect, do you know to which country Corsica belongs to..? Yes, France.

Finland's been under Sweden, Russia, and just about anyone who was interested. Yet people from those eras were Finnish...

Cheers,

Kingu
20th July 2003, 00:46
Yes, but the large majority of Corsicans, as well as Britons, Franc-Comtois or whatever, consider themselves as French.

elder999
22nd July 2003, 01:18
Originally posted by Kingu
Yes, but the large majority of Corsicans, as well as Britons, Franc-Comtois or whatever, consider themselves as French.

Not really....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/350222.stm

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/handouts/french/corsica/corsica1.htm

In a recent referendum (2000?) the vote came out 51% to 49% in favor of staying French, though......

Shitoryu Dude
22nd July 2003, 01:30
Ahhhh, I appeared to not have the politcally correct opinion and upset two or three people. Sniff, sniff. As if I gave a rat's ass.

Lesson one: Two people can study the same historical events and come up with two entirely different viewpoints and opinions on what actually happened. Since you whiners are liberals I just discount your opinions as grossly misinformed and wrong. You can make psuedo-intellectual comments about it all day, but in the end my viewpoint will prevail because people who think like me eventually get rid of the competition. The meek shall inherit nothing because the strong will usually kill the meek on general principles.

Lesson two will come along when I feel like dispensing it.

:beer:

Kobe
22nd July 2003, 03:58
Dude,
Now I understand, you are pretending, just joking, you only want to give us good time and then we can laugh about your comments. Thank you, you really achieve it:D
Before I tough you really serious in your ideas, that´s why I could not believe that people like you exist and I tried to argue, but now I know that you are just making fun, God bless you.
Another old guy, near retirement, bore at home and kind enough to be the clown of the forum.
Very good guy;)

Kingu
22nd July 2003, 08:43
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Lesson one: Two people can study the same historical events and come up with two entirely different viewpoints and opinions on what actually happened. Since you whiners are liberals I just discount your opinions as grossly misinformed and wrong. You can make psuedo-intellectual comments about it all day, but in the end my viewpoint will prevail because people who think like me eventually get rid of the competition. The meek shall inherit nothing because the strong will usually kill the meek on general principles.

Lesson two will come along when I feel like dispensing it.


So, should we call you the Enlightened? :D

Kingu
22nd July 2003, 09:00
Originally posted by elder999


Not really....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/350222.stm

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/540/handouts/french/corsica/corsica1.htm

In a recent referendum (2000?) the vote came out 51% to 49% in favor of staying French, though......


The majority.

The referendum you're talking about was this year (June or July, I can't remember) and it was not for independance but to get some autonomy. It was considered as a failure, both for independentists, whom leaders called to vote yes and French government who hoped to stop terrorism by satisfying independentists.

A referendum for total independance would have had a lot different percentages. Both because the feeling of being French is strong(with a very strong Corsican identity, we're talking of people living on an island after all ;) ) and, for pragmatic people, because the whole economy of the region would collapse if cut from the grants allowed by French government and European Union.

larsen_huw
22nd July 2003, 15:09
Hi everyone,

Am sure no-one remembers me, i posted last year when i had a boring summer job in an office ..... well guess what! It's that time of year again! :D

Far be it from me to side with the French (heven forbid) but i think (i could be wrong, often am) the French won the 100 Years War on points. We Brits ran out of money and had to stop trying to take over more of France. The French thus achieved their war aim of not being taken over by the Brits. So while they didn't win militarily, they were able to keep fighting after we had to stop.

As i'm sure someone somewhere has said before:

"France is a lovely country, with beautiful scenery, wonderful weather and great food ...... just a shame it's full of French people!"

Shitoryu Dude
24th July 2003, 05:09
Let's Not Pardon the French

Wednesday, July 23, 2003
By Julia Gorin


As many sound and revealing theories as have been proposed over the past year to explain France's confounding geopolitical behavior, they've all missed something fundamental.

The country's less than Western, less than ally-like stances would have seemed less baffling if we hadn't started from a wrong premise: Namely, that France is a member of the civilized world.

Savages naturally gravitate toward savages. And they facilitate savagery everywhere while impeding nations that seek to minimize it.

How else to explain France's (search) defiant feting and support of brutal leadership, as in Zimbabwe (search) and Iraq (search)--even helping Iraqi officials escape to Cuba (search), according to a Geostrategy-Direct (search) intelligence brief? Whatever economic benefits there may have been to France in its oil, arms and nuclear dealings with the Hussein government, they were secondary to the kinship France apparently felt for its bloodthirsty system.

Why else would an old couple get beat up for protesting the Saddam Hussein (search) posters and Iraqi flags that were a staple of French anti-war rallies (search), where young Jews were clobbered with iron bars? How else to explain French sympathy for the more barbaric of the two Semitic cousins, not to mention for Islamic rebels (search) everywhere, most recently in the Ivory Coast? Sympathy that has been enabling acts of violence against the civilly more constructive cousin--so numerous as to leave the rest of Europe struggling to keep pace. Fittingly, France--where it is unsafe for a Jew to wear a skull cap--has been the European nation of choice for Muslim immigration (search), now six million strong there, and for Jewish emigration.

Indeed, there should be no mystery surrounding France's inability to forgive America for rescuing it from the Gestapo (search) more than half a century ago. Today France is gleeful about its friendship with Germany, recently celebrating 40 years of German-French postwar reconciliation. Franco-German reunification has taken the form of standing together on everything from the Iraq war to forcing economy-crippling policies on current and future EU members.

France has a natural affinity for any and all of the globe's uncivilized elements. The more primitive, the better to define one's own deviancy down--a deviancy that once prompted Mark Twain to observe, "In certain public indecencies the difference between a dog & a Frenchman is not perceptible." Which would explain why dogs are allowed in restaurants in France.

But then how does one account for all the charming, elegant French culture--the art, the wine, the cheese, the language, the pastries--those qualities that have made France what to the world appears to be a bulwark of civilization? My uncle, an Israeli composer, answered that question when he invited my husband and me to the Metropolitan Museum of Art (search), and I answered, "We're low-class. We don't go to museums."

He replied, "We're also low-class. That's why we go to museums."

Connoisseurship is indeed a brilliant cloak for depravity: don a lofty external disguise to mask a degraded internal character. Let's recall that the most dehumanizing event in modern history, the Holocaust (search)--with its massacres and incinerations--was set to classical music and fine dining. Similarly, anything the French do is considered artful, including inventing the guillotine (search), which turned "beheading into an art form," as an ad for a guillotine-style cigar cutter read in a Sky Mall catalogue.

The guillotine inventors, meanwhile, perpetually pride themselves in having abolished the "barbaric" death penalty. Kill their killers they won't, but handing over 10,000 citizens for the gas chambers was never an issue.

The French even managed to innovate in animal cruelty. The popular dish Foie Grois (search) is liver from a goose that has been mechanically force-fed to make its liver work overtime and become soft and fatty. Last April, a top Paris restaurant celebrated its one millionth eight-week-old duckling to be strangled and cooked in cognac and its own blood, then served with a souvenir numbered tag. It's owner reportedly remarked, "If for the chef each dish is a work of art, for me, it's...the return of a happy moment....There is nothing more serious than pleasure."

Of all the contemporary diplomats, dignitaries and official ministers of the world, it was dashing French Foreign Affairs Minister Dominique de Villepin (search) who refused to answer the question of whom he would rather see win the war--America or Iraq--but who published an 800-page book of poetry. This poet calls Hamas a vital player in any Middle East peace process.

Always on the opposing side of civilization and on the cutting edge of degenerateness, the French are pioneers in decadence. What was the first place child rapist Roman Polanski (search) thought to go where he could thrive in exile? France, of course, where art redeems all. And who better to land the gig promoting France and French products than Polanski's kindred spirit here, Woody Allen (search)? Such men have called America "puritanical." Which must be the French understanding of the word "moral."

Consider the book that was a 2001 bestseller in France, The Sexual Life of Catherine M (search), (Grove Press), the true-life memoir of Parisian editor and art critic Catherine Millet who "loves penises," as the June 2002 review in Elle Magazine reads.

In one scene, writes reviewer Will Blythe, an entire caravan of cars gets lost on its way to an outdoor orgy at a sports stadium. At another point in the book, Millet writes: "'In the bigger orgies...there could be up to about 150 people...and I would take on the organs of around a quarter or a fifth of them in all the available ways.'"

Whenever the American conscience wrestles with the introduction into our society of some risqué new practice, procedure or product--such as lowering the legal age of consent, installing condom machines in schools, approving RU-486 (search) and dispensing it in schools--proponents always reason, "The French have been doing it for years!"

Yet in Paris, where they speak in soft tones and posture demurely, they bristle when the gregarious, high-decibel American approaches with a question, and pretend they don't understand English.

During his stay in Paris, journalist Andrew Baker (search) witnessed a cyclist stop to beat an octogenarian pedestrian unconscious after the latter threw a baguette at his head for cutting him off. According to Baker's 2000 New York Press (search) article about his experience, the event was typical of a Paris day.

Now we know why in America, when someone accidentally uses a four-letter word in the presence of a child, he or she hastily adds, "Pardon my French."

Kobe
24th July 2003, 06:57
Julia Gorin article:

"Let me first emphasize that I was as touched as any freedom-loving American by the events and images of the past week, just as I was by the story of the Iraqi man who risked his and his family's lives repeatedly to help save American POW Jessica Lynch."
Very good, pow indeed.....another pill to swallow.


Another article-pearl:

"Given this grim outlook-and given the European Union's self-destructive and counterproductive tendencies-we must ask ourselves now: Do we really need to heed the advice and demands of other countries? Indeed, is there even any need for other countries to exist? (I'm not saying destroy them; I'm just pointing out their irrelevance.)

The only reason people even visit other countries is for the landscapes and architecture, and most of that is already here. Just look at Las Vegas: Hotel-casinos styled after exotic places from all over the world, with names like Venetian, Monte Carlo, Mandalay Bay, Sahara, Rio and Barbary Coast. There's also one called Excalibur, where Camelot is alive and kicking. Even the Egyptian pyramids are there-as is Paris, with the Eiffel tower bursting through the buffet. (New York is there too, so the French can have their Statue of Liberty back, because we already have another one in Vegas.) Basically, anything other countries have, Vegas built. If Vegas didn't think of it, it must not be that important."

Just my type of girl, very good education. The funny part is that most probably Julia can not point out in a world map where all these placer are.(well, maybe Las Vegas yes.)

Ok Harvey, now that we know the kind of writter-reporter-whatever Julia Gorin is, you can go back to your cave.......and take her with you.

ScottUK
24th July 2003, 08:50
Here's a picture of Harvey on his holidays...

http://www.daedalus-graphics.co.uk/hosted/themaddog/images/other/clou.jpg

Kobe
24th July 2003, 09:03
Do you mean the pigeon on top of Peter Sellers??? Do not be so hard with.....the pigeon. ;)

Kingu
24th July 2003, 11:02
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Let's Not Pardon the French

Wednesday, July 23, 2003
By Julia Gorin



LOL :laugh:

Vapour
25th July 2003, 02:41
Something bit more sensible.

http://www.americanheritage.com/AMHER/2003/04/france.shtml

Shitoryu Dude
25th July 2003, 02:51
Yeah, but nobody trusts the French, nor likes them very much. And they smell bad.

:beer:

Kobe
25th July 2003, 03:00
Well, there is no doubt that France made tremendous and positive contributions to the Western world, only ignorants an stupid people can denied that.
I´m not french, I do not have special sympathy for France(I feel much comfortable in other countries) but a fact is a fact, and our world history is plenty of french achievements which benefited the whole world.
Still, I do not understand why from time to time, some american guys wants minimise the importance of France, lack of knowledge?, inferior complex(in terms of ancient culture)?, I do not know.

william northcote
25th July 2003, 08:23
Still, I do not understand why from time to time, some american guys wants minimise the importance of France, lack of knowledge?, inferior complex(in terms of ancient culture)?, I do not know.

Or maybe they have fought for nearly 800 years in battles. But I think it is the complex.

larsen_huw
25th July 2003, 09:18
Shouldn't we Brits have the final say on the French?

We've been fighting them for longer than America's been a country!

Conversation between me and an American student friend in a pub:

Him: You're 15 minutes late.

Me: So what, you guys were 3 years late to WWII!

Him: **silence**

Nothing against America, or (most) Americans.

ScottUK
25th July 2003, 09:58
We often refer to WWII as the 39-45 war. Is it true that Americans call it the 41-45 war?

mews
25th July 2003, 20:45
well, we didn't get *officially* in it until Pearl Harbor, so if we weren't there, hey, nuttin' interesting wuz happenin'.

:::sigh:::

also, most Amurricans don't realize that the Soviat Union did the heavy lifting in terms of ground combat against the Germans, and that until they rolled to a stop [Kurst, Moscow, Stalingrad etc] the Nazis were the biggest, baddest, most undefeated military around.

I don't write the textbooks.

mews

william northcote
25th July 2003, 20:53
Originally posted by ScottUK
We often refer to WWII as the 39-45 war. Is it true that Americans call it the 41-45 war?

Actually they joined the European war in 1943 not 1941. In 1941, Pearl harbour was bombed and that started the Pacific war which brought the USA into war.

Shitoryu Dude
25th July 2003, 20:54
I've never heard of it referred to as anything other than World War II.

:beer:

william northcote
25th July 2003, 20:59
WWII is known to me as when my Grandfather on my dad's side of the family fought for space on Normandy.

ScottUK
25th July 2003, 21:12
the Nazis were the biggest, baddest, most undefeated military around.Yeah, that may be so, but the ol' RAF made sure a ground invasion by them didn't occur.

And besides, we had a shiteload of farmers with pitchforks gagging for the hun to land on Blighty...

william northcote
25th July 2003, 21:14
Shades of Dads Army.

"Don't tell them your name Pike."