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Tripitaka of AA
15th July 2003, 07:54
UK readers may have seen "Adam & Joe Go Tokyo" last night on BBC1. It had a segment devoted to illustrating the phenomenon of Salariimen "on the piss". The contrast between drunks on the streets of London or Glasgow couldn't be greater.

Smartly dressed business men, falling over and wobbly-walking down the streets singing and being silly. Bizarre to our eyes.

Mrs Tripitaka was telling me about the drink that was popular in her youth, "Shou-Chou". Apparently a spirit of some kind, she assumed Chinese in origin, great for mixing. It was cheaper than beer, didn't give a hangover and did not affect the ability to talk. The only drawback was its negative effect on the ability to walk. Apparently Sake is also well-known for "going to the legs".

I wonder if there is a scientific explanation for this particular weirdness (I wanted to use the word "phenomenon", but I used up my ration in paragraph One).

Jock Armstrong
15th July 2003, 08:03
The evil that is shou chu is still around and popular tough the reason is a mystery to me. Like sake it is an A grade hangover in a bottle. There is a very nice one made with peaches. Its the only good one in my opinion but some people say they can drink shouchu wiyhout being under duress................

Guinness forever.:D

StanLee
15th July 2003, 08:21
At a new year's party my brother and I gate crashed, we were offered shou chuu. And in great amounts together with sake, beer and other spirts.

I had a two day hangover and I still think that it had affected my coordination to the point where my aikido wasn't "quite right" until the end of Jan!

Stan:beer: :beer: :beer:

Vapour
15th July 2003, 08:26
liqure like shouchu are considered pure because it use distilled water. Impure stuff like wine, beer, sake and chinese wine cause far more headache. Now I don't know science behind it but it is true.

Striking Hand
15th July 2003, 08:30
From what I learned it is the impurities in the drink that cause hangovers., so using distilled water might reduce them.

Thus double distilled liquors and similar tend to cause less of a hangover, same with more expensive forms of liquor vs cheap liquor.

My Grandfather only drank vodka after he poured some pepper into it, which is said to draw the oil and impurities to the bottom. He learned this from Russians.

Cheers.

fifthchamber
15th July 2003, 14:21
Hi all...
One of my families great 'exploring' days out resulted in mymum finding a pot of Satsuma Shochu...I still have a lot left actually...As it really is hard to take seriously in more than a (Very) small capful....Which came with the pot!
It's not bad really...Just like REALLY strong Sake or Vodka with no flavour (And if you are puzzled by that; THATS MY POINT!!)....White spirit comes close...But is more aromatic...:D
And the Adam and Joe show is FAR too classy to be on that late...I am now off to buy myself a Mobile phone dangly bit....Or five...(I have to fit in!!)....
Genius...
Regards.

Charlie Kondek
15th July 2003, 14:40
Interesting!

My dad used to hang with this old Italian restarauteur who claimed, "If you do not drink the cheap wine you do not get the overhang."

StanLee
15th July 2003, 14:47
Peter,

Are you sure about the pepper thing? If so, I can drink vodka without the bad hangovers (in fact this is the few drinks that does me in).

Stan

Aozora
15th July 2003, 16:51
Whilst we're on this subject, does anyone know if absinthe is available/legal in Japan? I'm curious what their attitudes are towards stuff like that is.

Well, that and I'd like to try it when I visit...:D

Vapour
15th July 2003, 20:20
Pretty obvious to most people but hungover is caused by dehydration of brain. So strictly speaking, you still get hangover even you drink pure liqure.

Shitoryu Dude
15th July 2003, 20:33
Hnagovers can be worse if you drink something with a lot of impurities, but basically you are just extremely dehydrated in many cases. Of course, if you drink a LOT of booze, expect to feel a thousand little guys with hammers in your head trying to get out.

My own cure for preventing a hangover, which worked pretty damn well 20 years ago.

1) On the way home stop and get a dozen donuts. Eat as many as you feel like and that will help calm your stomach. Note: if you are so drunk you are puking, give it up already and just resign yourself to suffering you total fool.

2) Once you get home and take a shower, knock back a few extra-strength pain killers (non-aspirin).

3) Keep a big jug of very cold water nearby. Whenever you wake up during the night make sure to drink plenty of water.

4) Sleep in as late as possible

That usually did the trick. No hangover, no fuzzy tongue, no splitting headache. Get up, shower, go get a big breakfast.

:beer:

Steve Williams
15th July 2003, 22:08
I have a bottle of Sho-chuu here.....

It is sort of a "rough sake".... made from potato not rice (although it can be made from many things I believe).


David, next time we meet I can bring the bottle if you want ;)

Personally sake is better, but neither is a patch on a single malt :D

Steve Williams
15th July 2003, 22:09
As this is about "food and drink" then I think it is best in that forum :)

cguzik
15th July 2003, 22:17
2) Once you get home and take a shower, knock back a few extra-strength pain killers (non-aspirin).


...If you take Tylenol (acetominophin), don't take too much! It can cause severe liver damage if taken in even moderately high amounts while processing alcohol.

Ibuprofen has anti-inflamatory properties that will prevent swelling of the brain from the dehydration, which can definitely help.

P Goldsbury
16th July 2003, 02:53
I think it is evil stuff.

There is a small Chinese/Japanese restaurant here which serves tokage shouchuu. i.e., with the lizard still in the bottle. A Dutch friend of mine came to stay and I took him to this restaurant and, at being told that he did aikido, a glint came into the owner's eye. The tokage stuff is a mere 40-odd % proof, but the ratings gradually climbed until we were drinking vile stuff that was 70% proof. This was all imported Chinese, which was preferred to the 'lower class' Japanese varities on offer.

And it all tasted the same to me..., I suppose like the stuff that goes into my car's fuel tank each week.

On the other hand, I like a spot of grappa, to round off a good Italian dinner.

Best regards to all,

hyaku
16th July 2003, 07:24
I would put Shochu (rice wheat or potato whisky) down as Japans national drink.

The sake and beer (and whisky flavoured water) is something you drink in company. If you go down to Kagoshima thats all you get. You are lucky to a get one beer to wet your appetite.

Never did like it much but I love Korean Shoju and have never experienced a hangover. Two weeks time I will be polishing off a few bottles of that.

Hyakutake Colin

Tripitaka of AA
16th July 2003, 09:26
In the UK Pub, the Irish Pub and the American Bar the serious drinkers will be the ones who stand at the counter. This ensures a quicker replenishment of drink and less stumbling over coats when you get up from a table. Is this also a form of self-regulation, in that it becomes clear early on when you've had too much. You can feel the wobbly legs taking effect directly.

The people who sit down to drink are more at risk of finding out the hard way that they have lost control of their limbs.

Is that why the Japanese drunks look more wobbly than the average English drunk. Is it all down to the drinking posture? Or is it down to the type of alcohol consumed?

Has anyone managed to prove that certain drinks affect certain parts of the body (not liver, kidneys, spleen, etc. - I'm talking wobbly legs, power of speech, headache, loose bowels, the visible symptoms of too-much-itis)?

It's a bit odd for me to have started this thread, as I don't drink alcohol any more. It just doesn't feature in my life. No strong objections on moral, physical or medical grounds, just I don't find myself in those situations recently.

hyaku
17th July 2003, 01:26
Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
The people who sit down to drink are more at risk of finding out the hard way that they have lost control of their limbs.

Is that why the Japanese drunks look more wobbly than the average English drunk. Is it all down to the drinking posture? Or is it down to the type of alcohol consumed?

Firstly the alcohol in the Japanese drinks for example sake, shochu is different. Japanese immediately mix it. Start with a beer, sake comes around. Then by the end of the first session some are already on the rice whisky or Whisky and water. Then its on the second shop to drink some brandy or whisky, make the most horrible noises into a microphone (Karaoke) and insult a few young women with their dirtiest talk and maybe manage a good grope. Do they get thrown out? No. Its more of a, "Now dont be a naughty boy" system. Hopefully he will eventually pass out in a corner and you can order a taxi to take him home.

There makeup is different to Westerners after one medicine glass of beer some are so bright red it looks like they are going to explode. Also very red glazed eyes.

To some its the best excuse to act stupid and irresponsible. Expect the most serious person you know to stand up on a table in a bar and remove every stitch of clothing! At first I though they were acting strangely but have decided now that this is the real person hiding within just waiting to pop out after a few drinks. All just little boys dressed in suits looking like businessmen.

Most Japanese men are mummys boys. They get married and this is transfered to the wife. Have a few drinks and it all shows through. You can sit with the boys on the floor at home and listen to some stupid conversation about work or some peacock posturing. Or you can go to the seperate group in the kitchen (the ladies) and have a really nice conversation about everyday things. The only good thing about Japanese drinking is they dont have so far to fall as they are already on the floor. You can leave them there or make up a futon next to them and roll them on to it.

In Japan, "I drink for stress" is a common term rather than leave the bottle alone, go home and get some rest. the more stressed they get the more they drink.

Sadly my main experience of Japanese drinkers was having to live with one.
I saw him drink beer such as guiness and bitter for years in the West. He held his own quite well be inevitably would succumb after a long stint. Back home in Japan the same man would be on his way out and on the floor under the table and losing control of his bowels just having a few Japanese drinks at the dinner table. I know this is a sign of alcholism but the Japanese drink definately effected him differently.

One near escape when he fell off his bike into a water channel at the edge of the rice fields. Luckily it was not the rainy season and it was nearly empty!

By the way I did not see the program and dont think I would want to anyway.
I just have to wander out in the town at night to see it and have a few choice insults thrown at me.

Hyakutake Colin